Looking for a relaxing sleep podcast to help you unwind, quiet busy thoughts, or gently fall asleep? In this episode of The Insomnia Project, Marco welcomes special guest Jim Kim for a calm and easygoing conversation about home renovations.
Together, they reflect on their recent renos, sharing the small details, unexpected moments, and quiet satisfaction that come with working on projects around the house. From planning improvements to the realities of getting the work done, the conversation gently wanders through the everyday experience of transforming a home.
Along the way, they hint at a special spoiler, adding a light touch of curiosity to this otherwise soothing discussion.
As always, the conversation unfolds at a relaxed, meandering pace — low-stakes and comforting, designed to ease anxiety, quiet the mind, and guide you toward rest.
Whether you’re winding down before bed, taking a break during the day, or enjoying calm background audio while you work, this episode offers a peaceful and cozy listening experience. And if you fall asleep before it ends, that’s exactly what we hope for.
#sleeppodcast #insomniapodcast #relaxingpodcast #sleepconversation #calmpodcast #bedtimepodcast #fallasleepfast

​Renos & Special Spoiler
(Original airdate: July 18, 2018)

 Welcome to the Insomnia Project. Sit back, relax and listen as we have a conversation about the mundane. One thing that we try to do is bring a conversation to you, our listeners that's less than fascinating so that you can just feel free to drip, drift off, chill and just enjoy. Thank you for joining us. We hope that you will listen and sleep. I'm your host, Marco Timpano and joining me today is a dear friend of mine, Jim Kim. Welcome to the Insomnia Project.

Jim Kim: Thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here yet again.

Marco:  Jim, I'm so glad to have you one because you're a dear friend of mine, but also because when we started the Insomnia Project as a um exhibit at the um Nuit Blanche, which is the 24 hour art festival, you were such a key player in that experience because Jim is my technical expert. Mai is a technical expert who I often rely on for my technical needs. But you helped make that art installation available to everyone through a like a you tell me.

Jim Kim: Well, we basically had to MacGyver a solution so we had a software platform. Um, but Then we also had to be able to broadcast this live, which was part of the, um, um, exhibit.

Marco:  Um, and so it was kind of the precursor. It was because of that that we started a podcast because. Yeah, because you helped to take what we were doing as an art installation and broadcast it. Now you did it live.

Jim Kim: Yes.

Marco:  And they were like, how can we do this? And we're like, podcast. But anyways, I'm sorry I cut you off.

Jim Kim: You were saying, no, no, that was pretty much it. And I think the, you know, I was there more, uh, as soon as everything was set up. You know, you just sort of hope and pray that everything goes smoothly. But I was across, like I lived across the street at the time, so I think at one point something did go wrong and I got a, like a frantic text message and so I just ran back across the street and fixed it and then that was it. And then it was hard because the one thing with Nuit Blanche is you are going all the, all the way through the night and you had guests coming in. Um, and so it was great to see. But also with the Insomnia project, it's effective. So it's hard to stay awake throughout the night. And so here I am trying to stay awake to make sure everything goes smoothly, but at the same time listening to the stream and dozing off. Right.

Marco:  So because it was 12 hours. Right. It started sunrise or. Sorry, sorry, sundown till sunrise.

Jim Kim: Mhm.

Marco:  Jim is at his home the entire time listening, not seeing the franticness that's going on behind the scenes other than when something wasn't going right.

Jim Kim: Yep.

Marco:  And so you were just dozing off.

Jim Kim: Uh, yeah.

Marco:  That's hilarious. And you played a vital role because we had all this food donated to us. And at a certain point we're like, we've got all this food and. And we're like, where are we going to store it? And we're like, Jim Kim's house. So we brought this food that was sort of contributed to our installation. And it was at your place and people would go to your house when they needed a drink or some, some moments of repose, you know, and it

Jim Kim: was, it was a great installation as well. Like I remember going. And, um, the hotel was, uh, very generous and just allowed people to come in and sit and sleep in the lobby.

Marco:  Yeah, people would fall asleep. I don't think the hotel realized when we sort of pitched, we got this hotel and they were happy to be a venue for an exhibit. Mhm. But they didn't know what they were gonna get yeah, we were thrilled to get them. And they just thought they would have some visual art displayed and people would come into their lobby. Meanwhile they had this group of people recording and broadcasting and people falling asleep in their lobby. And at a certain point they were like, well, there's nothing we can do. They were really cool about it though. It's the Hotel St. Germain in Toronto. If you're ever looking for a hotel, tell them the Insomnia Project sent you. Speaking of your home. So you are no longer in that location. It was a condo across the street. Correct. Now you're in your own home. And you've got a home in a beautiful town in Ontario called St. Catherine's yes.

Jim Kim: It's uh, one of the few places where, um, someone can buy a house for under a million dollars. Right. And I think that was a big thing. Um, and I'm not ashamed to say that I paid $250,000.

Marco:  Oh, that's amazing.

Jim Kim: For a detached three bedroom house.

Marco:  Oh, it's detached, yeah. Oh, that's great.

Jim Kim: Yeah. And that was something that I learned as well, uh, being in the, in the market. Like one of my friends helped me out and I didn't realize that there's a value to having a detached house rather than a semi detached or a row house for sure. For me, I, at the time, a house is a house, property is property. But he's like, no, if you have like. And then of course after this, I read an article about somebody who, uh, who had a terrible neighbor in a semi detached house and they left their place in disrepair and so raccoons were getting in.

>> Nidhi Khanna: Oh, wow.

Jim Kim: From their neighbor's house into their house. And so I was like, all right, I do need a detached house.

Marco:  We should also mention that these are, when we talk about prices, these are prices for Toronto. So if you live in the city of Toronto, like many m major metropolitan cities, you're not going to find a home for less, especially a detached home for less than a million.

Jim Kim: Yeah.

Marco:  Uh, and St. Catharines is between Toronto and Niagara Falls.

Jim Kim: I would say it's about an hour and 20 minutes driving.

Marco:  There you go.

Jim Kim: And they're going to be, they're supposed to be installing, uh, a train from a go train is supposed to extend to Niagara Falls eventually. And so then it'll be an hour on the train to Toronto.

Marco:  Yeah. And it's a beautiful, it's a beautiful city or town, whatever. Considered, um, a lot of the growing area is around St. Catherine's a lot of our growing belt or whatever. A lot of orchards and whatnot, if I'm not mistaken, are not far from there.

Jim Kim: I think you're correct. I don't know much about the city. Okay. Um, I go there, you know, periodically right now. But, um, it's. It seems to be a nice place. You know, it has its nice and terrible areas just like anywhere else.

Marco:  Sure.

Jim Kim: But, uh, yeah, I think the price was right good. Yeah.

Marco:  What was the biggest learning you received from purchasing a home that you would, you would convey to people listening?

Jim Kim: I think the biggest thing is there's a lot of upfront costs that you might not know about.

Marco:  Right.

Jim Kim: So there's a lawyer you have to pay for. There's, uh, you know, property taxes. And just I think I was going in and I'm like, oh, I have a decent down payment and that's it. The bank gives me money and I get it. And then later I find out there's, you know, at least two or three thousand dollars that I should have accounted for beforehand. And I was like, all right, well, now I know.

Marco:  There you go.

Jim Kim: Yeah. And that's before even, like, trying to do any renovations. Like, that's just so that I can take possession.

Marco:  Right.

Jim Kim: Yeah.

Marco:  Uh, you know, it's interesting. This isn't the first episode that we've done with regards to home buying and purchasing a home and dealing with the home. We have a two parter in season one with Alexandra. So if our listeners are like, wow, I'm finding this interesting. I invite you to go back and listen to those. And for those of you who are just finding this calm and cool, we're going to continue to talk about home renovations. Because now that home you've purchased, you've had it for what, uh, just under a year?

Jim Kim: Just under a year. About six months. Six or seven months, yeah.

Marco:  And now you're beginning to renovate the basement.

Jim Kim: The basement, yeah.

Marco:  Because I'm doing the exact same thing. So Jim came over and I'm like, jim, I gotta show you my basement. And so Jim is looking at it with a really, really astute eye and saying, oh, you're doing this and you're doing that. We're both in renovations. Yes.

Jim Kim: Yeah. So the basement, and that was another thing I think, was the cost of renovations. I grossly underestimated how much it was going to cost. Um, and then even with the correct costs in place, I grossly underestimated the amount of overages.

Marco:  Okay.

Jim Kim: That would happen. And it's not, you know, a shady contract or anything. Like there were legit problems that surface Once you tear things down, it happens to everyone.

Marco:  Here's my thing. You gotta always sort of keep your mind in the positive. You're doing something great. Ah. You're renoing your basement, your kitchen, your. Your bathroom. Blips are gonna come up that are gonna force you to sort of figure things out, but realize that you've sort of stepped into something that is ultimately gonna be great.

Jim Kim: Yeah.

Marco:  So for us, it was the tile. So our rental person had budgeted. Made a great budget. We had a great design. Um, jm and we're really excited. And then we're like, oh, but these aren't the tiles we want. Because our rental person was like, I provide everything. I'll show you. And it's like, okay, and here is. Here are your options. And we're like, no. And then we realized we want a nicer tile that's more expensive.

Jim Kim: Yeah.

Marco:  And so it's like, oh, what do we do? What do we do? And we're like, you know what? Let's put the money in the tile, because that's something that's going to be really featured, and we'll just figure out where we can save money and not sort of spend there. So that's. We. We're doing this kind of balancing act of like, okay, let's spend some here. Okay, we've come up with this. Let's save there.

Jim Kim: Let's.

Marco:  And whatnot.

Jim Kim: Are you doing any work yourself to try to save some money?

Marco:  That's a great question. Now, ordinarily, I would, and I have in the past, but with this particular renovation, we've decided that were going to use contractors. Um, just because. I don't know. I just. It's. It seems like a, um, project that's a little bit above what I can do, or it will just take too long for me to do it. It would take what. What might take what will hopefully take three months to four months would take me a year. Just clearing out the basement gym was. Was a task in itself. So I did that. We actually had an episode where I just talk about what I found in my basement. That microscope. You don't. Do you need a microscope?

Jim Kim: Strangely, no, I don't.

Marco:  Do you need a cooler? A giant cooler to cool drinks and stuff?

Jim Kim: No plates? No, I think we're good.

Marco:  Bowls.

Jim Kim: Yeah. Yeah. We're actually going the opposite way now. We're downsizing. We're clearing out some stuff because of the upcoming edition.

Marco:  Yes.

Jim Kim: Yeah.

Marco:  Congratulations.

Jim Kim: Thank you.

Marco:  So Jim and his wonderful wife are expecting.

Jim Kim: Yes. This is new news to us. Like relatively new news to us. And now I guess new news to everybody listening. But you, like, I think when you're living in a place long enough, you barely have enough space for your own stuff. And so then when you're like, well, there's somebody else coming in, then you're realizing you have, you have not allowed for anybody else to come in.

Marco:  Right.

Jim Kim: So you have to start clearing stuff out. And then you realize, like, I have a lot of stuff. Sure, yeah, yeah.

Marco:  And you have this little bundle of joy that's coming and now you've got to make space with this little bundle of joy. And you wouldn't expect a little bundle would need as much space as you're going to have to dedicate.

Jim Kim: Right, exactly.

Marco:  Because it sounds like Jim is going to be losing his office.

Jim Kim: Yeah, I think that's, that's, I think the most logical way of doing it. Like we've talked about. And there's like, you know, you talk about co sleeping, I think is a thing.

Marco:  Yes.

Jim Kim: And so we've talked about that. But at the same time, like, we sleep in the basement and we like it cold and that's probably not the best environment to raise a baby. Right. So, you know, uh, the option of putting a heater in the basement to, you know, make it more comfortable for the baby is an option, but then it would be really uncomfortable for us. Right. Because we both like it cold.

Marco:  I respect that. Uh, I like it cold too.

Jim Kim: Yeah.

Marco:  In our basement we're putting tile and our Reynolds guy said like, it's gonna be cold.

Jim Kim: Yeah.

Marco:  And I'm like, great.

Jim Kim: Mhm.

Marco:  He's like, but because I'm like, in the, in the summer, I love to be in a cool space.

Jim Kim: Yeah.

Marco:  And he's like, yeah, but the winter I'm like, we'll have a little electric fireplace and that'll warm. My basement's not huge, so it'll do the trick.

Jim Kim: Yeah.

Marco:  Otherwise a rug or throw on a cardigan is what I say.

Jim Kim: Exactly. Yeah. It's easier to put layers on. You can only take so many layers off to get warm.

Marco:  Yes.

Jim Kim: Right. That's why I'm more of a like a fall spring person than the summer.

Marco:  And people are like, jim, I'm shaking your hand right now. You can't hear this, but we're actually shaking our hands because I'm the same.

Jim Kim: Yeah. I think I've seen a few Facebook memes of people like a picture of Toronto in the winter and people saying like, if you, like, you can't complain about summer after Seeing this, I'm like, no, I, I prefer that winter to this summer.

Marco:  Here's my thing. And I know our listeners have heard this before, but I'm going to say it again. When the temperature is such in the fall that I can walk out of the house with just a sweater on, I couldn't be happier.

Jim Kim: Yeah, I get it.

Marco:  And I look good in sweaters. I like the way I look. I don't look great in T shirts and I can't wear those. What do you call them?

Jim Kim: Like tankless, sleeveless.

Marco:  And that's not, that's. Nobody wants to see that. So at least, uh, not on me. So I'm always too hot and sweaty.

Jim Kim: And you're Italian, you've got some hair happening on your arms. You have built in insulation.

Marco:  Listen, I certainly do. I certainly do. So, um, yeah,

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Marco:  Okay, so you've, you're going to alter your office for your, for your childhood? Yes.

Jim Kim: Well, that's, that's one of the plans. We are still deciding on so many things and not, uh, we haven't made any solid decisions on anything.

Marco:  What about baby names? Now, don't tell me if you have a baby name. I know you wouldn't, but has that come up in the conversation? Have you been bouncing around ideas that just came up?

Jim Kim: Okay, um, and so there we've sort of figured out a couple of rules.

Marco:  Okay. Um, this would. Can you share the rules with our listeners? Because.

Jim Kim: Yeah, I think one of the rules is we don't want it to be too unique.

Marco:  Okay.

Jim Kim: Like we don't want like Apple or, you know, those really stupid. Yeah. Um, and, like, there's a certain amount that will. That I'll accept. And I think there's like, sort of a sliding scale on this. But the one example that I brought up. And I hope this doesn't offend anybody or this isn't somebody's name.

Marco:  Don't mention it if you feel your spouse won't want you.

Jim Kim: Oh, no, no. This is. This is one that is on the no Fly list. Um, is. And I don't know if you've ever seen this, but I've seen it a couple times. Is the name Nevaeh.

Marco:  Okay.

Jim Kim: And people use that name because Nevaeh spelled. Or Nevaeh's heaven spelled backwards. Oh, right. And so people are like, oh, that's so beautiful. I'm like, that is just so corny.

Marco:  And I'm like, see, I love that. I think that's wonderful.

Jim Kim: Yeah, no, um, no.

Marco:  Okay.

Jim Kim: So, yeah, I'm not about that.

Marco:  Yeah, fair enough.

Jim Kim: Um, and then, like, standard names, like, like my. My wife's name is Jen, and she's like, that's a very common name. So, ah, she doesn't want anything too common. And then one of our friends recently passed away, and her name was Julie. And so we were thinking maybe Julie, but Julie Kim is like, the most common Korean name. Yeah, yeah. Korean English name. So we're like, we can't have that. Okay. Um, and then the other one, and this might be a weird one, is she can't have the initial ck.

Marco:  Ck. Okay.

Jim Kim: Yeah. So no Christine Kim.

Marco:  Okay.

Jim Kim: Or anything like that. And that's because of. And this might sound like almost like a stretch, but, um, because of the. Everything that happened with Louis C.K.

Marco:  oh, I see.

Jim Kim: Yeah.

Marco:  So now that makes sense because you're in the world of comedy. I respect that.

Jim Kim: Yeah.

Marco:  What about the name Mick M I

Jim Kim: C. That would make the baby sound like a, ah, McDonald's entree.

Marco:  Okay. What about Midge M, M I, J. Midge Kim.

Jim Kim: Yeah, that's like this backwards. That's right.

Marco:  That's what I did with both Mick and Jim to see. I wanted to test your theory of, like, these backwards things.

Jim Kim: If those would work for you, I probably wouldn't fly.

Marco:  Okay, fair enough.

Jim Kim: Yeah, fair enough. But we've also thought of, like, um, names that are genderless as well, so that. Gender neutral names. Yeah, gender neutral names. So, you know, uh, I don't know,

Marco:  like, okay, I can.

Jim Kim: Madison or something.

Marco:  I can tell you a bunch of gender neutral names because a lot of the work that I do when I do corporate Work. Because the role that I play could be played by a male or, um, female. Okay. Or someone who doesn't identify with a particular gender. We have these names that are, that could be either gender. And so we have names like Leslie.

Jim Kim: Okay.

Marco:  Kim.

Jim Kim: We can't have Kim.

Marco:  Right. Because Kim. Kim would be, um, a little bit odd. But I'm sure there's Kim. Kim's out there. Uh, Dale.

Jim Kim: Okay.

Marco:  Chris. Uh, what are some other names that we use? Um, uh, I just said I had so m. Many. Ashley.

Jim Kim: Okay.

Marco:  Yeah. Um, uh, Chris. I said Jean or Jean.

Jim Kim: Oh, yeah.

Marco:  So there's these names that we use that come up all the time because they could be used by any actor who, um, any actor who plays the

Jim Kim: role gene would be good because that also fulfills my wish. And it's not a requirement, but it's a wish of having some nerd cred. So if it was Nate, if her name happened to be shared with a comic book.

Marco:  So Jean Grey.

Jim Kim: Exactly. What about Gray? Gray. Gray Kim.

Marco:  Like as a middle name. So let's say it was like. Let's say you picked what's a common, common name. Let's pick one of these gender neutral names.

Jim Kim: Right.

Marco:  So that we don't identify. Uh, Leslie Gray Kim.

Jim Kim: Well, that would be good, except I think we also already have the middle name. Two or three middle names already. So I've been raised with the shortest legal name ever. Right, right. So to have like a 30 letter name I think would just be cruel. Cruel punishment for this child growing up and having to fill out application forms later on. So I'm trying to keep it as short as possible. So we'll, we'll see. I like the whole, um, Marvel's way of using alliteration with the names.

Marco:  Sure.

Jim Kim: So like Christine or Carol. Like that. The two hard C or K sounds I really like. But I don't know if that's gonna fly because I think Jenna's also afraid to have two K's in a name. All it takes is one more and.

Marco:  Yeah, fair enough. Yes, fair enough. Um, I'm not a huge fan of naming a child after a, uh, grandparent.

Jim Kim: Mhm.

Marco:  And if you're named after a grandparent or if this is what you did, more power to you. I'm only not a fan of it because my name was supposed to be my grandfather's name.

Jim Kim: Okay.

Marco:  Because in tradition, in, in particular with my dad who's from southern Italy, in tradition has it that you name your firstborn child after the grandparent. But my mom didn't like my grandfather's name and didn't want her son, myself to be named after my grandfather, which is. Which is Salvatore. Uh, Sal. So she was like, no and so forth. For her, it was important to have a name that could sound good in both Italian and in English or that she liked the sound of it in both languages.

Jim Kim: Okay.

Marco:  And so Marco won over Michael, which was her favorite name, her favorite English name. She likes how it sounds in English, which is Michael, but she wasn't such a big fan of how it sounded in Italian. Michele M. She liked Michael, and she was like, the problem is when we have relatives or when we go to Italy, his name won't sound the way I want it to sound.

Jim Kim: So she's thought. She. That's some good thought put in.

Marco:  She put a lot of thought into it. Yeah.

Jim Kim: Well, and the one thing is Korean tradition is that, um, the eldest of the prior generation. So my dad is the eldest of his generation. He becomes the patriarch of the family and gives all of our kids, um, their Korean name.

>> Nidhi Khanna: Oh, really?

Jim Kim: Right. And that's all based on, like, a certain structure as well. So it's either a common prefix or a common suffix amongst that generation.

Marco:  Amongst your dad's generation.

Jim Kim: Every generation has one common either prefix or suffix. So for my generation, we had a common prefix, and it's Ji. Okay. So, uh, my Korean name is Ji Sung.

Marco:  Okay.

Jim Kim: My brother's is Ji man, and et cetera, et cetera. So everybody in my generation has that, uh, for our kids. So my grandfather named us.

Marco:  Right, your grandfather did, yeah.

Jim Kim: And so my father is going to name our kids. Right. Uh, and they're all going to have the suffix of chic.

Marco:  Uh, chic.

Jim Kim: Yeah. So my nephew, his name is Hyun Sheik.

Marco:  That's his Korean name. By.

Jim Kim: By my uncle. By your dad. By my dad, because he's the eldest of that generation.

Marco:  So it's not even the grandfather of the child necessarily. It's the oldest in the lineage.

Jim Kim: It's the oldest of that generation of that generation. Yeah. So technically, based on this, my older brother, who's the oldest of his generation of my generation right now, um, will name our grandkids.

Marco:  Wow.

Jim Kim: Yeah. And like all of the grandkids. So my brother's grandkids, my grandkids, you know, my. Technically, my. My cousin's grandkids. Really, like anybody who's a Kim will

Marco:  have in your family, because there's a lot of Kims out there.

Jim Kim: Yeah. Yeah.

Marco:  Wow, that's fascinating. Okay, so how. How is it determined the preface the

Jim Kim: prefix or the suffix that I don't know. But I think it switches every generation

Marco:  to just something that. That gets known in the. In the South Korean or the Korean community.

Jim Kim: Okay. And so, yeah, my dad's generation, everybody has the suffix of kyung.

Marco:  Okay.

Jim Kim: So my dad's name is Taekyung, my uncle's Chan Kyung, etc. Etc. So that's a pretty cool Korean thing.

Marco:  That is a cool Korean tradition.

Jim Kim: Yeah. And so Jen is like. So I told Jen. I was just like, that doesn't have to go on the birth certificate. Right. That's just something like when the Korean relatives come.

Marco:  That's.

Jim Kim: Yeah, yeah.

Marco:  So who refers to you as Jaesung? My parents. Jisung. Jisung.

Jim Kim: Sorry. Jisung. My parents. And anybody. Anybody who's Korean, like, really Korean.

Marco:  So they don't call you Jim, your parents?

Jim Kim: No.

Marco:  Oh, that's.

Jim Kim: Yeah. So growing up, it was really confusing because, um, if I was playing with my friends, they all knew me as Jim, of course. But then if my mom's yelling at me from the front porch, she's yelling Jisung. Right. Um, and so then my friends, who I didn't. Who I went to school with, but, uh, were my friends on my street, all thought my name was Jason. Okay. Right. And then they all went to a different, uh, elementary school. And then, uh, for middle school, they came to my school. And when we shared the class, they. The teacher would be like, jim. And they're like, who's that? And it would be me. And they're like, no, his name is Jason. I was like, no, it's. It's gym, technically. And they're like, why do your parents call you Jason? And then. Then I would have to explain to them the whole Korean thing. And then, of course, you know, little Italian kids are like, your parents are weird. Right? Right. Right.

Marco:  Until you find out their traditions and whatnot.

Jim Kim: Yeah.

Marco:  Because my dad is named Bruno, but he would always tell a story of how when he came to Canada, people would try to call him Bruce because it was easier, but he hated the name Bruce, so he insisted they call him Bruno. And sometimes he would get into fights about it, and so he would always tell this story. So when I was in my mid-20s, as a joke, I started to call my dad Bruce, to which the reaction was he did not enjoy it at all. And he made it clear he didn't enjoy it. But the more he got angry, the more I would do it. So much so that my sister started calling Bruce, and my cousin started to call him Bruce. And every once in a while my mother would refer to him when she was talking to us as Bruce. So where we would formally call him dad, we were now calling him Bruce, which is not his name. And it would aggravate him. And at a certain point he just sort of conceded and we all called him Bruce. So friends who I met later on in life didn't think he was my father because I referred to him as Bruce. They thought maybe he was my stepfather or someone else because they didn't expect me to call my dad by his sort of anglicized first first name. So that was. That's a funny. Names. I find names so fascinating and the things that you can do with names and just the traditions with names as well.

Jim Kim: Yeah. Um, well, people, uh, every once in a while I get an email, like a soliciting business email. Uh, and the person will start it off by saying, dear, uh, James. And that's an immediate delete. I'm like you. You just tried to formalize my name, thinking that it would somehow make me feel better. But no, no. Oh, and one thing. Uh, I don't know if you've heard of this movie, but maybe it's something you should watch with your dad. Sure. It's a movie called they Call me Bruce. Right. Have you heard of this?

Marco:  I have. Uh, wait, who's in it?

Jim Kim: It's a Korean guy.

Marco:  Okay.

Jim Kim: No, no, it's an old 80s movie and it's a Korean guy who comes to America and he has a very difficult name. Or it's not that he has a difficult name is just because everybody he, uh, comes across thinks that because he's Asian he knows martial arts and he doesn't. But he fakes it thinking that he can get away with it. And he's an old. At the time he was like a well known Korean comedian, but he looked exactly like my uncle and I was convinced it was my uncle.

Marco:  And what's your uncle's name?

Jim Kim: My uncle's name is Chun Kyung.

Marco:  Okay.

Jim Kim: Um, and so I was convinced it was him and it looked exactly. And so when we saw it as a family, like we all. Like I was the youngest the one in the. The time and so I thought it was him. It wasn't him, but.

Marco:  Wow.

Jim Kim: Yeah, but it's a, It's a terrible 80s movie. But if you want something to make fun of your dad with, there you go. That might be something.

Marco:  Well, Jim Kim, Jae Sung.

Jim Kim: Jisung.

Marco:  Jisung. Yeah. Sorry.

Jim Kim: That's okay.

Marco:  Thank you. I never call you by your Korean name. Now I'm gonna try to learn it. Uh, thank you so much for being on this episode.

Jim Kim: Thank you for having me back.

Marco:  We were gonna talk about home renovations and we got into names and baby names. Congratulations to you and to Jen.

Jim Kim: Thank you.

Marco:  Than we wish you all the best. And we'll have you back once the baby is born to talk about what's going on then.

Jim Kim: Oh, my God. That's going to be just me venting, I'm sure.

Marco:  Not a problem. Well, thank you for listening, as always. The Insomnia, um, project is produced by drumcast Productions, and this episode was recorded in Toronto, Canada.

Looking for a relaxing sleep podcast to help you unwind, quiet busy thoughts, or gently fall asleep? In this episode of The Insomnia Project, Marco welcomes special guest Steve Papadopoulos for a calm and thoughtful conversation about the art of drawing with a simple ballpoint pen.
Steve shares insights into his creative process, reflecting on the patience, precision, and quiet focus required to create detailed pen art. Together, Marco and Steve explore how something as simple as pen on paper can become a meditative and soothing practice.
As the conversation drifts through art, creativity, and the subtle details of drawing, it unfolds in the relaxed and easygoing style listeners have come to expect — a gentle, low-stakes discussion designed to quiet the mind and ease you toward rest.
Whether you’re settling in for bedtime, unwinding during the day, or enjoying calm background conversation while you work, this episode offers a peaceful listening experience that supports relaxation and sleep.
So draw a line from this episode to slumber — and if you don’t make it to the end, you’ve paid us the highest compliment.
#sleeppodcast #insomniapodcast #relaxingpodcast #sleepconversation #calmpodcast #bedtimepodcast #fallasleepfast

​Pen Art
(Original airdate: June 20, 2018)

Marco Timpano:  Welcome to the Insomnia Project. Sit back, relax and listen as we have a conversation about the mundane. One thing that we try to deliver is a conversation that's, uh, less than fascinating so that you can just feel free to drift off. Thank you for joining us. We hope you will listen and sleep. I'm your host, Marco Timpano. Today's show is brought to you by bar. That's right. If you have a pooch at home and you want to give them a little special treat, getbarkbox.com the insomniaproject. And if you order a six or 12 month subscription, you'll get one month free. And you know that Nidhi's a huge fan of it for her pooch Zina, who often makes an appearance on our show. But today's show we have a special guest, Stephen Papadopoulos. Stephen, welcome to the show.

Steven Papadopoulos:  Thank you.

Marco Timpano:  Steven, uh, is a friend of mine who is also a visual artist. And one of the great things and one of the reasons why I was like, I want to get Stephen on the show, I want to get you on the show is that, um, I look at your art on Instagram and if our listeners want to follow you at Spulosart S P U L O S art, they can see what you're working on.

Steven Papadopoulos:  Yeah.

Marco Timpano:  As well, they can go to StephenPopadopoulos CA and I'll put it on our show notes because that's a, that's a long name. Yeah, Right. And, uh, they can check out what you do. Great. So, Stephen, I wanted to ask you because your style is very unique. You use pens, you kind of make lines. First of all, how would you describe this particular method of producing your art? Like, what exactly does it entail? And I know that art is a visual medium, so to have to explain it on a medium like a podcast is a little unusual. But, uh, just to sort of set the tone of what, what's around me. Because we're in your studio right now.

Steven Papadopoulos:  Yeah. I guess for me, a lot of the work is, um, more about exploring abstraction, but also color. I, um, really enjoy color theory, so I explore those ideas within my work. Uh, the linear repetition are a lot of my interests within, uh, my body of work. There is a sort of quality to it that I look for in. Within the shapes. They kind of.

Marco Timpano:  They kind of like, they kind of come to life with not just the colors, because you use vibrant colors, but this. The. Would you say geometric shapes?

Steven Papadopoulos:  Yeah, they would be geometric. Um, the shapes come out of through layering process. So I guess there's no end game to the work initially. I don't start with an idea, a composition in my mind like some artists may do. Um, whether it be figurative and knowing the placement of everything, I start with one simple shape at times or a sort of automatic sort of drawing. And through the layering process, it informs the next move.

Marco Timpano:  I see.

Steven Papadopoulos:  In a sense. So I'll keep going until, I guess the. The artwork is resolved in that sense.

Marco Timpano:  So you layer. When you talk about layering, you layer, um, pen, pen, lines, gesso and acrylic paint on top of each other.

Steven Papadopoulos:  Yes.

Marco Timpano:  And you. And there's a process of sanding that as well. Correct.

Steven Papadopoulos:  With the acrylic, uh, gesso, uh, which gives it a sense of opacity, uh, through the layering. So it's sort of a painstaking process of layering the clear gesso and sanding repeatedly. And the work through the layers will inform something next of I might see within the work. So it takes. Sometimes, it would take a lot of time to look and just sort of stare at the work, uh, for hours and hours before I decide next of what to create.

Marco Timpano:  I mean, to say it's impressive really doesn't do it justice. What's fascinating to me is the pen part of it. So you take a ballpoint pen. Does it matter? The ink, color?

Steven Papadopoulos:  No, I usually use black ballpoint pen. It has an interesting quality. Through the layering, it will tend to yellow, or depending on how many layers or how I do it, it will even go like almost a purple. Ah. When I do Layer a color over top of that. It will even go sometimes green. Um, I found it more interesting than if I were to use red or a blue pen.

Marco Timpano:  I see.

Steven Papadopoulos:  So it's just, uh, choice, I guess, just through that technique of using that pen.

Marco Timpano:  Now walk me through what the process is with the pen, because it's hard for me to describe it, but basically it looks like multiple straight lines of pen marking. Do you take a ruler? Is that what you do?

Steven Papadopoulos:  I use a ruler.

Marco Timpano:  Okay.

Steven Papadopoulos:  And there's a certain energy that I use with it. Um, it's just repeated, but I try to. There's. When I use the pen, it kind of sounds odd, but I do hear a noise with the pen.

Marco Timpano:  Right.

Steven Papadopoulos:  Um, the back and forth motion. There has been videos of me using it, and you can hear it. And so for me, there's. There's a weight, um, in each line, so you can see within the work at times. Uh, when I do, there's. It's a continuous motion, and I. When it's sort of automatic at times. But then there's times where I make certain choices of, like, how thick I want each line, where I want thin. Um, very similar to, like, gradation of some sort of, like, even drawing with pencil or, um, using a gradation from black to white. So I will continuously work on that until I feel the pattern is sort of happening within the work. Right.

>> Tess Sharp: It.

Steven Papadopoulos:  I almost feel like there's a transition that happens and almost, um, kind of seeing like. Almost like a note of something.

Marco Timpano:  Like. Like a musical note or a note

Steven Papadopoulos:  as in note or just even like a. Within that contour of that line. Something that is more than just a repetition of same lines.

Marco Timpano:  Right. Okay, I see what you're saying. Because, you know, when I look at this piece in particular, the lines aren't spaced out equally. They have some distance and some lines are darker. And so it looks like you may have pressed harder on the pen as you draw. Drew it towards you or away from you.

Steven Papadopoulos:  I don't know exactly. Yeah.

Marco Timpano:  So there's definitely that feel of, like, motion in the art that I see. But I know art. I'm no art critic or no art expert, but there's certainly a vibrancy that comes out in your work. Do you finish the ink in a pen when you start your work? Like, have you ever exhausted a pen?

Steven Papadopoulos:  Yes, that does happen. Um, and I don't mind that at all, because what will happen, the reaction with that, uh, the color will actually start to change. So the black through the layers. There's areas that will be when the ink was more prominent and there, uh, would be a lot more vibrant. But then when it starts to fade that ink.

Marco Timpano:  Sure.

Steven Papadopoulos:  That ink will almost start to fade very fast within the work.

Marco Timpano:  I see.

Steven Papadopoulos:  So it creates a very interesting quality to the body of work.

Marco Timpano:  Wow.

Steven Papadopoulos:  Has certain sensitivity. That's really nice to the piece.

Marco Timpano:  Now, does it matter what pen you use? Is there a preferred pen that you like to use?

Steven Papadopoulos:  A lot of my pens are actually dollar store pens. I see. Yeah.

Marco Timpano:  How great would it be if Mont Blanc sponsored your art and said, here's our pens use, make art with our pens and we'll give you the money to have a studio and do all that?

Steven Papadopoulos:  It would be fantastic.

Marco Timpano:  Sure.

Steven Papadopoulos:  But I mean, really, it really depends on how good the pen is because,

Marco Timpano:  well, the Mont Blanc pen is supposedly one of the best in the world. Right.

Steven Papadopoulos:  But some of them, if they bleed too much, the pen can get really frustrating. I've had pens just start bleeding and ink would pour out. Wow.

Marco Timpano:  Well, I'll. You know what? I'll put out this challenge to Montblanc if they want to sponsor you because their pens are like thousands of dollars.

Steven Papadopoulos:  I don't think I've ever used one.

Marco Timpano:  Yeah, well, yeah, I'm sure once you

Steven Papadopoulos:  use and it's very aggressive. Yeah.

Marco Timpano:  Well, listen, hey, listen. It's the best test for their pens to see if the Montblanc pen lives up to your. Now, this is your own unique art. Like no one else does this that I know of. Correct. You've developed a technique. I know a lot of artists develop techniques when they, when they work, but you've developed your own sort of technique here.

Steven Papadopoulos:  Yeah.

Marco Timpano:  Is that safe to say?

Steven Papadopoulos:  I think with the process, um, it started way back in ocad, um, when

Marco Timpano:  I was there, which stands for the

Steven Papadopoulos:  Ontario College of Art Design. I think it's OCAD U.

Marco Timpano:  Now, um, for our international listeners, that will be like, what's ocad?

Steven Papadopoulos:  Yeah.

Marco Timpano:  Because we had my sister in law, Becca Barker, who teaches at nascat, which is the Nova Scotia.

Steven Papadopoulos:  Do you have anyone to nascat? Yeah.

Marco Timpano:  Oh, maybe he knows. I'll have to talk to him. Yeah. She did an episode on, um, rotoscoping. So if you listen to one of our past episodes, you can hear all about rotoscoping with Becca Barker and myself.

Steven Papadopoulos:  All right.

Marco Timpano:  But right now we're talking to Stephen Papadopoulos. And I'm going to hazard to say that if our listeners want to purchase your art, they can, they can do it online too.

Steven Papadopoulos:  Is that safe to say I am through, uh, Instagram if they want to direct message me. M for potentially commission or visit the studio would be lovely.

Marco Timpano:  Oh cool.

Steven Papadopoulos:  Um, but also I have some work on Saatchi Online. Um.

Marco Timpano:  Oh, that's awesome.

Steven Papadopoulos:  Yeah, so there's work there that's also up for purchase as well.

Marco Timpano:  There you go.

Steven Papadopoulos:  You know, people are interested in having a look. You can look on my website or Saatchi Online and maybe we'll grab a

Marco Timpano:  couple of pictures and put it on her Instagram account as well so that they can see what we're talking about today. How long does a piece like that take? Uh, I know that's such a benign or like basic question that I'm asking, but it's something that you know, for the non artist who goes to a museum and whatnot and you look at a piece of work and you think how long did it take to make that? I have the opportunity to actually ask an artist how long did it take to make this piece in front of me? Well,

Steven Papadopoulos:  it really depends obviously with the range of the work and depending on what I. What for me it's more or less until I'm. I feel the painting is resolved, the emotion I get from it. I think Agnes Martin, uh, artist Agnes Martin was one of the thing that struck a chord was what she said when I listened to actually one of her podcasts.

Marco Timpano:  Okay.

Steven Papadopoulos:  Or someone shout out to you. I think it was from the Guggenheimer. Ah. Anyway, the Agnes Martin said along lines, so don't quote me on this but just said um, whenever you have that feeling, waking up in the morning and you're happy or and you don't know why. Right. You just. It's not a dream that you had. It's not you just happy. She's like, that's the true emotion of just that feeling that way. And she's like, that's kind of the emotion I look for in my art. So I guess in that same lines, when I'm creating a work I don't like I said I don't really have an agenda necessarily what it's going to look like the finished product. It's until I reach uh, a certain point within the work that I'm like it's done or I'm happy. Right. So it could take longer than some, um, than uh, I can have a

Marco Timpano:  very small pieces can be exactly the same in size, but one could take a short time.

Steven Papadopoulos:  Exactly.

Marco Timpano:  I see.

Steven Papadopoulos:  So sometimes I've actually intended even to go further, further. But I've looked at the piece. And I'm like, it's done.

Marco Timpano:  It's done. So.

Steven Papadopoulos:  And I'm happy with it.

Marco Timpano:  That's great that you can recognize when it's done.

Steven Papadopoulos:  It can be challenging.

Marco Timpano:  Sure.

Steven Papadopoulos:  Right. I've overworked a piece where it's just messed up. Yeah, it just went too far. I pushed it too far. Um, like this one. I'm kidding.

Marco Timpano:  Um, it's a beautiful piece that actually my computer's sitting on. And I said to Steve, and is it okay if my. And he's like, yeah, I sand on this piece.

Steven Papadopoulos:  Well, actually, speaking of work, when it's finished, this. This piece that. That your computer is on has been in this state for about two months.

Marco Timpano:  When will it be done?

Steven Papadopoulos:  I'm still thinking about, uh, when to start again.

Marco Timpano:  I guess it's an unfair question to ask an artist when. When will the piece be done or how long it takes? It takes as long as it takes.

Steven Papadopoulos:  Right, Exactly. I mean, there is sometimes a deadline, and you have to kind of work within that. But I try to do what I can within that time frame.

Marco Timpano:  What does this art say about you?

Steven Papadopoulos:  Um, that's a. That's actually a good question. I've never really thought. I. I think, like, every once in

Marco Timpano:  a while I hit on a good question.

Steven Papadopoulos:  Yeah, no, that's actually really good. I never looked at it that way. I think I've always said, what does this art say about the art? Like, I looked at it that way.

Marco Timpano:  But maybe the fair question is, what would you like this art to say about you?

Steven Papadopoulos:  I guess with the certain. There's a certain craftsmanship that I really appreciate with the work, and I think that's kind of, you know, uh, sort of not lost today in the art scene, in the art world. But I really appreciate that, ah, element of craft. I mean, you know, you can look at this work and, you know, not see it right away in terms of the detail and everything, but there. There's a love for the. What I do, and there's an appreciation for what I do, and I think. And even the color, um, the vibrancy of the color, the energy of the color, um, that I really am enthusiastic about when I create this work. Like, I just want to see what it looks like, and I. I think I kind of want to share that. You know, um, it's just that visual component that I like and that sort of. I want people to have that nice gaze towards the work.

Marco Timpano:  Ah, nice

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Steven Papadopoulos:  They don't. They can interpret it however they want. I'm not trying to, um, there's an open narrative to the sense of it. I don't want them to look at the work and be like, this is what it means. They don't have to read into it so much. It's just this visual kind of response to it, um, that I like and to look and just to be with a connection, maybe. However they're connected to the work in that sense that I find that that's what I want to give because that's how I enjoy it when I look at the work and I'm making it, I. I stare at it.

Marco Timpano:  Right.

Steven Papadopoulos:  Look at it continuously, and I enjoy it. I touch the canvas. I, you know, smooth it out. Right. Even hand polish them.

Marco Timpano:  Your hands, Your hands are all over the piece.

Steven Papadopoulos:  Yeah. Uh, sometimes I wish, like, not even to be able to sometimes necessarily frame them. Right. I've said to other artists, friends of mine, peers and whatever, like, I almost wish I can keep it on the table and show it so they can pick it up and touch the work and lift it up and. But of course, that can be, you know, a gallery would not enjoy that. But I mean, that's why some of the works I hung on grommets. I thought. I love the, uh, idea of, like, almost like flag. Like, even, you know, like old science anatomy posters.

Marco Timpano:  Sure.

Steven Papadopoulos:  You know, that you would see in a classroom, but just that kind of m. Seeing the materiality of the work. So it goes beyond just making the composition. It's all about the actual piece itself. Uh, whether they're on wood, how smooth, how the quality of the frame. It can go from that. So there's that craftsmanship that I want also to be part of the work. So it's the piece as a whole that I'm. It's the, I guess, sort of,

Marco Timpano:  uh,

Steven Papadopoulos:  saying of the painting is the object.

Marco Timpano:  Right.

Steven Papadopoulos:  I'm not, you know, um, you know, artists have said in a lot of abstract artists, like Malevich and all them, it's like, we don't paint objects. The painting is the object.

Marco Timpano:  I see.

Steven Papadopoulos:  And that's how I look at the body of work. So very similar to someone that's making an abstract sculpture. But instead I do painting. So that's how I kind of respond to the work. So whatever the dimension of the work is, that's how I work within that frame. Um, whether the painting will continue off to the sides or not, or that final product is. That's the piece that makes sense.

Marco Timpano:  Yeah, it's pretty awesome. Do you name your pieces? Is my next question.

Steven Papadopoulos:  At times I do. It's kind of funny how the names come out. Uh, the names develop based on. A lot of times they don't. Like, I've called them Composition number one, too. If it's based on the same body of work, sometimes it's based on the action. Uh, some pieces of, like. I've titled them Transition because they, you know, one of the works was in a show based on the idea of transition and what that word meant to the artist. So when I made that work specifically for that show, I kind of. The next body of work fit along that line. So I called them all Transition Number one. And there's been Shift number one, Shift number Two. But sometimes a name will come from the work based on how I describe it. So there's been ones, you know, that. You know, the one with the orange square, and that's that piece there. But I kind of. I changed the name through it, but it was still the orange square. But I titled it because it's not actual a full square. I see. So it's orange square, I think, 43.5 by 45.3, because that's the actual size.

Marco Timpano:  I see. So.

Steven Papadopoulos:  But that's how I describe it to people. I'm like, oh, I'm still working on the orange square. So that would still exist in the title.

Marco Timpano:  Right.

Steven Papadopoulos:  So that's generally how I come up with it. Sometimes I do, if it strikes me. And I've named one Blue Moon because of. One of the pieces was, uh, actually an orange moon, but the composition was mostly blue. I see. Everything was blue values, blue tones to it. And so that's where I was, like, kind of a cheeky title to it, but fun. And, you know, everybody understood. But Blue Moon. Right. So, I mean, it's not a major concern.

Marco Timpano:  I'd love to see your interpretation of insomnia in a painting. Speaking of color, you mhm. Use these colors. And what struck me with a lot of your pieces is the use of pink. We were talking about that before. It was. It's fascinating because you don't see pink in a lot of art as a predominant color. At least I don't. It's not the first thing that comes to me.

Steven Papadopoulos:  Well, I think.

Marco Timpano:  And these greens too, like you use these bright, bold colors.

Steven Papadopoulos:  Well, a lot of the colors that I choose are straight from the tube.

Marco Timpano:  Okay.

Steven Papadopoulos:  Right.

Marco Timpano:  So you're not mixing them?

Steven Papadopoulos:  Not, not about blending and mixing. I like the um.

Marco Timpano:  That's a choice you're making.

Steven Papadopoulos:  Right. It's a choice. When I see the color that I like and I'll pick. Sometimes I'll just pick three colors that I'll want to work with.

Marco Timpano:  Okay.

Steven Papadopoulos:  And it's at a random or in a sense sometimes there's been like. Because there's been those pigments in my studio that I need to kind of use up or get rid of. So I'll see what happens to them by putting them together. And there's an interesting. That uh, like I guess a color code that will happen that you don't normally see. You know, people are so used to the basic colors of the color wheel or you know, red and green together, whatnot, or. And that's. It's more complex than that in a sense, like if you want to get really in depth with it. But I think for me it's more about just kind of just the curiosity of these two colors being next to each other, which normal won't see. Uh, with brown and pink, for example, I've done a piece and over there where it's brown and pink, I thought it was kind of neat to kind of put those colors. Interesting to kind of put them and how they worked.

Marco Timpano:  Right.

Steven Papadopoulos:  It's just uh, for me I find those are the kind of playful.

Marco Timpano:  Mhm.

Steven Papadopoulos:  Things that I really enjoy. Well, to have that. The ability to do as an artist, that's what I enjoy. It's like practicing all the time. Right, right. And finding those little fun things that I can try out. I don't want it to be so straightforward.

Marco Timpano:  I see.

Steven Papadopoulos:  In my approach.

Marco Timpano:  Yeah. I'm curious because for example, the piece that you call orange square to me does not look like an orange square.

Steven Papadopoulos:  Right.

Marco Timpano:  It looks like a brown square. It uh, it actually reminds me of a shroud of some sort. Like a faded old shroud. That's what the first thing that struck me about that particular piece. So it's, it's fascinating. Like I Find it curious and fascinating how there is the use of bold colors in your artwork. Mhm. And how they came about and the fact that you use them straight from the tube and you don't mix because you want this effect.

Steven Papadopoulos:  Yeah. And it's feeling. Yeah, absolutely. And sometimes my process is in going back to mixing. It kind of mixes within its layers. The uh, color will tend to change, uh, lighten, darken based on the layers. And then it will also optically mix next to the color that it's with. So that's another thing. You know, um, there's a vibration that will happen. If you put like certain greens next to a red, it'll start to vibrate. Or blue next to a red, it will start to vibrate. So there creates that. So there's like going into. It's very complex with color theory and it will, you know. But I think that's one of those things that I don't. For me, I'm. I rather see those elements happening than mixing paint physically together to make a color.

Marco Timpano:  Wow.

Steven Papadopoulos:  Right.

Marco Timpano:  What has surprised you the most about this technique of art that you've developed?

Steven Papadopoulos:  For me, it, what, it's this, I guess a bit of it is this sort of alchemy towards the work. What happens, uh, over time sometimes or through this process. And how, I guess for me, like when I, you know, originally started as a figure of a figurative, uh, artist, it was so straightforward.

Marco Timpano:  Right.

Steven Papadopoulos:  And how I worked, you know, worked with oil paint, you know, either I had a model photograph or, you know, it was representational. It was. The end result would be that for this work that I do, I. It's this not knowing. Right. That I find very fascinating with. And this process that happens, I almost don't know. And I'm kind of insecure. Like, am I going to screw this up? Right. Like, is something bad going to happen? Right. And then it. And at times it has, but I continue to work or work with it, or I've discarded it for a while and I've gone back to it. So there's something about this body of work that it's uh, it's kind of, uh, intimidating or scary at times, but it's encouraging to keep going. And then when you, you kept going at it, you see the end result and you're like, I'm so glad I almost discarded that. Right, right. Or almost got rid of it. Because that's why sometimes when you can be insecure when you create artwork, it's scary. It's like, you know, and then you have to show it. It's like walking into room naked with a bunch of people. Right. So I think that's where, you know, it can be kind of daunting in that sense. And. And that's why with this process, it. I just kind of like that feeling of not knowing what's going to totally happen to it and seeing something come out of that.

Marco Timpano:  That's pretty cool. Is it addictive? Is because it looks like the pen, like just doing the. Is it Zen? Is it addictive? Is it, uh.

Steven Papadopoulos:  Well, for me, at times it can be because, uh, you know, I'll have my headphones on.

Marco Timpano:  Okay.

Steven Papadopoulos:  And I'll be listening to, like, jazz music or, um, even some, you know, like, acid jazzy music. And I'll just like. And I'll be just in that zone and I'll keep working. But then there's times where it's just become really difficult because, like, I almost get carpal tunnel from repetitive movement and, like, numb in my hands. But it's. There is a definitely meditative quality. I think by doing that and then stepping back and looking at the work, there's that other quality of meditative, and then you're really looking at the lines. Because sometimes I get so immersed in it and I'm not even really paying attention to what I'm doing. And then I'll step away and I'm like, oh. And then I'll just stare at it for a while. And that has happened in. When I've shown, like, shown that my work and people have just stared at it and they walk back and they walk forward and they walk back and it draws them in. And that's kind of the same reaction I have to my own work. So it's nice to see that.

Marco Timpano:  When you see someone doing that, standing back and moving closer, how does that make you feel as an artist?

Steven Papadopoulos:  It's kind of. It's nice and. Absolutely. I like people engaging with the work. I mean, that's the kind of the, um. I think why I do what I do is that engagement. Right. With. With art. That's the beauty of it. That's the fun part of it. Right. It's to be able to have, like, it. Be even. You know, some. Some art can be a form of just entertainment.

Marco Timpano:  Sure.

Steven Papadopoulos:  Uh, some art can be just more a form of just, like, being able to stare at, like, something like you would like a landscape.

Marco Timpano:  Right.

Steven Papadopoulos:  You know, or, uh, looking at the sunset. Right. It can be that kind of poetic. But I think, you know, it's just whatever it may be for someone. But that's the whole point. I think a lot of the reasoning for some of the visual arts, not all art, some could, um, be an educational process and what it might be in contemporary art. But I think, you know, for what I do, I think, you know, um, is that engagement with it and to kind of see something that you might have not recognized before or feel something that you might not have felt before or, you know, there could be a number of things.

Marco Timpano:  Well, speaking of engaging, Steven, I want to thank you for making this particular episode very engaging.

Steven Papadopoulos:  You're welcome.

Marco Timpano:  As we come to the end, if you'd like to see Stephen Papadopoulos work, you can go to. L O S Art and we'll have it in our show notes and take a look at his work. Uh, Stephen, I want to thank you for inviting me to your studio. This is the first time. No, this is the second time we've recorded a podcast in the studio. So thank you for that.

Steven Papadopoulos:  You're welcome. Thank you.

Marco Timpano:  As always. The Insomnia Project is produced by Drum Cast Productions. This particular episode was sponsored by barkbox. Go to barkbox box.com the Insomnia Project. And until next time,

Looking for a relaxing sleep podcast to help you unwind, quiet busy thoughts, or gently fall asleep? In this episode of The Insomnia Project, Marco welcomes fan favourite and father-in-law Daniel Barker for a calm and easygoing conversation about the world of drumming.
Dan shares stories about drummers he knows, along with reflections on different styles, rhythms, and what makes percussion such a fascinating part of music. From technique to the subtle role drummers play in shaping a band’s sound, the conversation gently moves through the many layers of rhythm and musical expression.
Even with music as the focus, the discussion remains soft, meandering, and low-stakes — designed to soothe your mind, ease anxiety, and help you drift toward rest.
Whether you’re settling in for bedtime, taking a break during the day, or enjoying calm background audio while you work, this episode offers a peaceful listening experience. And if you fall asleep before it ends, that’s exactly what we hope for.
#sleeppodcast #insomniapodcast #relaxingpodcast #sleepconversation #calmpodcast #bedtimepodcast #fallasleepfast

​Drummers with Daniel Barker
(July 4, 2018)

Marco:  Welcome to the Insomnia Project. Sit back, relax and listen as we have a conversation about the mundane. One that will hopefully help you sort of drift off. Thank you for joining us.

Dan:  Us.

Marco:  I'm Marco Timpano. I'm also in Florida. So for our listeners, you know what that means. I have an episode with my father in law, Daniel Barker. Dan. Welcome to the Insomnia Project.

Dan:  Thank you.

Marco:  Now, Daniel, we, um. Our first episode that I recorded with you was about cymbals because you're a drummer and you worked in a cymbal factory and you pretty much know all things cymbal. But now I'd like to talk about drums and specifically drummers, because you're a drummer. How did you get into drums?

Dan:  Well, for me, it was pretty simple. Back around the early 60s, this group came from England called the Beatles. And all of a sudden you realize all these girls are going crazy over these four guys. And so being a young, um, 12 year old, um, a couple of kids in the neighbourhood, we would just kind of pantomime their records and stand in front of a mirror trying to do the moves. So what drew me to it really was girls. Oh.

Marco:  So not wanting to emulate Ringo Starr, just wanting to emulate the popularity that the Beatles had.

Dan:  Yeah, what I found out was that, uh, you know, everybody had their favourite beetles, so that was fine. Um, Ringo was kind of the guy that was quiet in his own way, even though he was a bit of a buffoon at times. But, um, a lot of the girls really went for him because of his demeanor. You know, he was quiet and sullen face up there, etc. So there we go. Um, I just imitated the way he looked.

Marco:  I see. And how is he, as a drummer,

Dan:  he's actually very underrated.

Marco:  Really?

Dan:  Yeah, I mean he's a self taught drummer. The thing with Ringo is that he has a style that I was able to emulate because he's left handed and he's playing a right handed drum set.

Marco:  Oh, I see.

Dan:  So it's not as, let's say natural for him to do a lot of the stuff other drummers do. But that gave him a bit of a boxy, um, percussive, very hard driving beat and that's what the Beatles liked about him because he played so differently.

Marco:  So he was a left hand handed drummer playing a right handed drum kit, is that correct?

Dan:  Right.

Marco:  Is it because there weren't left handed drum kits at the time?

Dan:  No, actually all you got to do is move a couple of drums to make it that way. But the thing is um, such as in my case, I'm sure that he was taught to play like uh, the way most drummers played. So nobody gave it a thought that he was left handed or right handed or whatever.

Marco:  Mr. How did you learn?

Dan:  Well first for the most part I was self taught, emulating and copying what I heard on records, etc. Um, it wasn't until I got out of the army that I took professional drum lessons. Um, the concept back there, back in those days was that a lot of the songs are very simple. We um, used to call them three chord progressions and that just meant that they were very, actually very simple to play. So um, once you get one or two or three beats down then you could just about do everything that was out there.

Marco:  And is that different today?

Dan:  Oh yeah, much different. Um, even back in the uh, 70s things started changing. You started having groups, whether it was Chicago, Blood, Sweat and Tears, the horn groups or the jazz, um, players were getting into a mixture of a rock, jazz thing going on in jazz. Um, what I mean by that for a drummer is that different time signatures were coming out. It wasn't just a 4, 4 or 3, 4, 2, 4 time. Uh, you might be playing um, something that's uh, say more jazz oriented, uh, uh, uh, five, four as an example, Dave Brubeck, the drum was Joe Morello. And instead of playing in four which meant four beats to the measure, this

Marco:  is what a time signature is. Yeah, okay.

Dan:  He was playing five and that just changed the whole thing around. So um, it progressed musically and I

Marco:  would imagine that the prevalence of Latin music also influenced how drums were played uh, in traditional rock bands and whatnot.

Dan:  Yeah, I mean uh, look at Woodstock and ah, Santana getting Up on stage, um, all of a sudden we saw congas and bongos and other things. But if you go back, a little historical thing here, back in the 50s and the 40s, a very big influence was Cuban music. And one of the best, uh, aficionados of that was a bebop, um, gentleman who I got to know, um, uh, Dizzy Gillespie. Oh. And Dizzy Gillespie actually would come down to the Factory because he had a certain, um, a couple of cymbals that he always wanted his guys to play. I mean he very had very acute taste and hearing. But he would show us the old, um, the old Cuban Latin rhythms and these things were, you know, uh, talking about 5 over 4. I mean you'd be talking 12 over 8 or 11 over 8. Something that's so odd that you'd have to count it out in your head and not just listen to the music to try to fit it in. Um, but back in those days and even today, if you go to Cuba, the band will be consisted of three or four percussionists, conga player, bongo player, um, somebody on uh, maracas and other asundry, uh, percussive instruments. So that influence was really always there, but kind of got hidden after the Beatles and then resurfaced.

Marco:  Wow. It's interesting because I've never heard you talk about Dizzy Gillespie and having met the person, what was he like?

Dan:  Very much a gentleman. Now I, I got to know him because he would come to the Factory and he would come two, three times a year. Uh, whenever he played up in the Boston area, he would stop in and um, he always had top notch players with him. So what we uh, would hang out at the Factory and that would be something he liked to do because he could, he could talk and talk, uh, music, uh, because we were all drummers, etc. And um, he was very much a gentleman. He um, was back in the 40s and 50s when he was coming up, he was uh, quite a player. He was one of the beginning of bebop was, you know, Dizzy led the charge there. And the thing is that he expanded beyond the jazz of the times to get into that whole thing. And he was quite a player. But when I got to know him, he had the puffy cheeks and his act was more of a uh, quote unquote shtick. Right? Because people expected to see his jowls go out as he played, etc.

Marco:  Right.

Dan:  And they really didn't understand, you know, some of the music that he uh, originated and how complicated it was to play. So he would just play to the crowd. By that time, as he was getting older, um, but very kind man. Grew up in a very tough era. Very, um, racial emotive. It was tough for him to go back home to South Carolina and play.

Marco:  Right?

Dan:  You know, uh, being black and etc. But, um. But no, he was. He was quite a guy.

Marco:  If you want to know more about the Factory, we did an episode on cymbals in season one. So I recommend that people go back and check out that episode. Uh, what are. Who are some other, uh, drummers that have a unique style or a style that you. You think is underrated?

Dan:  Well, you know, going back a few years ago, you start at the top. I mean, Gene Krupa, Buddy Rich, Louis Belson. Louis Belson was married to, uh, Pearl Bailey.

Marco:  Okay.

Dan:  And you just go down the line of the big band drummers and the jazz drummers of the time. M. A lot of them underrated, A lot of them, um, I mean, just tremendous players. Um, some of the ones that, um. Uh, you get into innovation, and some of them go to what I would call extremes. I mean, there was one young man who went up through Berkeley and all the jazz and all that. And last, uh, time I saw him, he. He was playing with twigs, uh, that he would cut off branches of trees rather than regular drumsticks. And the reason is, he said, well, it's so much more natural. You look at him and go, yeah, well, that's interesting. So he's out there cutting, uh, limbs off trees for his sticks. Um, but it would progress not just in one way or one area, would just kind of blossom. And certain drummers, um, made their money because they could imitate, um, and emulate a lot of that. A friend of mine whose name was Bernard Purdy. Bernard was Aretha Franklin's drummer from New York. Uh, did a lot of playing, playing, um, and he's on a lot of recordings. Um, we used to have a joke in the industry, and it would show the Beatles in their, um, outfits there. Um, I'm trying to think of what, uh, name of the album was.

Marco:  Sergeant Peppers.

Dan:  Thank you. Sergeant Peppers in those outfits. And instead of Ringo, they supplanted, uh, Bernard, who's black in the uniform. Because Bernard would say, yeah, I played on Beatles records. And people would ask, well, which ones? And back in the day, the drummer usually was the first, uh, uh, recording before the other players, because they. Because they said they set the right. Him and the bass player.

Marco:  Right?

Dan:  And so Bernard would go, yeah, I played quite a bit. I don't know uh, you know, because he, as. He was very honest, he'd say, I don't know which ones made it on the album. Um, I don't know which ones got canned. You know, that never happened.

Marco:  So would he be. Would he be recording his drum beat before Ringo would lay his on the album?

Dan:  No, it would be in lieu of Ringo sometimes. Okay. Um. If you go back to, um, sergeant Peppers and everything beyond, you'll notice that there's a lot of different rhythms in there. And, you know, Ringo's a very good drummer, but he had a certain way of playing that always sounded the same.

Marco:  Right, okay.

Dan:  And so they would bring in other people to play around them.

Marco:  I see, I see.

Dan:  I mean, even something. Let me just point out one of the early, uh, records, Love Me Do. Uh, Ringo didn't play on that.

Marco:  Oh, really?

Dan:  No, no, a studio drummer did. And, um, you know, it wasn't that tough a beat to play, but nonetheless, you know. No, it wasn't Ringo. And of course, uh, as the Beatles progressed, they brought in a lot of other musicians, you know, keyboard players and guitar players, etc. So, of course.

Marco:  Of course. Now you have a great story about a friend of yours who played with Elvis. Oh, yes, tell us about that.

Dan:  Well, the gentleman's name was Larry London, and I met him back when I was playing in the late, uh, 60s. Um, he came into the factory to, uh, pick out a set of cymbals. And at that point his career was. He actually started off as a singer. And when I knew him, he was a singer, but he took up playing drums and, uh, became one of the drummers of Motown back in the day. And from Motown in Detroit, uh, Chet Atkins, um, came across him and said, uh, why don't you move to Nashville? We're doing quite a bit of recordings and I could use you. So he went to Nashville and he was one of the most recorded drummers, um, not just in country, but, uh, in a lot of areas. He, um, was a powerhouse guy drummer, uh, one of the best. And he, um, played on several cuts of Journey and. And other, uh, top groups. And um. Uh. Uh, what happened is that, uh, Elvis always, uh, kept his musicians for a long time. And he had this, uh, drummer, uh, excellent drummer, um, and he was from la. And Elvis says, well, we're going to take a break here. And this was really before he got into the Las Vegas thing.

Marco:  Right.

Dan:  And so these people were all put on retainer. And back in those days, the Drummer's retainer was $50,000 a year.

Marco:  Impressive.

Dan:  Just to be there. And, uh, that was a lot of money back then. That would be like a quarter of a million today.

Marco:  Sure.

Dan:  But Elvis always took care of his people. And this guy's name was Ron Tutt. And Ron went, um, back to LA and started doing some recording business. Helen Reddy. And, um, a lot of, A lot of the recordings of the time that came out was Ron Tutt. So he's doing okay here day in and day out playing on the recording. So after about a year and a half, I think it was. Think it was quite two years, Elvis says, okay, I'm ready, let's. I want to get on the road, etc. And Ron says, well, Elvis, um, I really don't want to give this up. I'm having a great time. I get to sleep my own bed every night. You know, my wife cooks a meal. It's great. So says, okay, well, you know, we wish you the best. And there we go. What happens is that they audition drummers. Well, Larry London gets a gig. So they're in rehearsal, ready to go out, and Ron Tutt calls Elvis and says, man, I made a mistake. Oh, and Elvis didn't, you know, was put in that terrible position. And so he goes to Larry and he says, hey, man, you know, Ron wants to come back. And Larry, uh, always a gentleman. And I learned quite a bit from him this way. He said, well, he's been with you for years, Elvis. I understand. And Elvis looked at Larry, man, I really appreciate that. He said, I'm going to pay you for the whole tour. And Larry said, no, no, no, I don't want the money. All I ask of you is if anything ever happens to Ron, that I get the call first and I'll sit, I promise you. So what happens? They're out on tour, Ron Tut's doing the gig, etc. Out of the blue, Larry gets a call. They were playing up in Detroit that night. And what happened in rehearsal is Ron Tutt walked off the stage. He fell off the stage, broke a leg. I believe it was a leg or an arm, I don't remember which. But he couldn't play. And so Larry gets a call and Larry says, yep, I'll be up there for the gig tonight. He had to book like three plane seats to put his drums on the plane. They fly up to Detroit. He doesn't. Doesn't get much of a rehearsal at all. Just gets right to the venue and off they go. And that was the last tour that Elvis did.

Marco:  Wow.

Dan:  So Larry finished up that tour and, um, he had a, he had a lot of great stories. He once, uh, was invited to Vidalia, uh, Georgia. I remember this because it's the onion Capital Georgia. Okay. And he flies in a small plane. They pick him up and they've got a parade all set up with high school band and everything to march through town. They put him on this chair up on a flatbed, um, and he's waving to the crowd and nobody wanted to see Elvis's drummer.

Marco:  What was he like as a person?

Dan:  He was great. I consider him. One of the nice things about my career is a lot of these guys became friends. They weren't just business colleagues or associates. Um, and Larry was one of those, um, uh, he would go out of his way if you needed help.

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Dan:  Uh, I'll tell you one other quick story that I think is important is back in the days, um, it was Larry and about five other guys that would be doing all the recording out of Nashville. And they get a call for this young artist. And so they go in the studio and they're playing and this girl's singing. And the producer is saying, no, no, I want you to do this, I want you to do that. And the big thing at the time in country was Tammy Wynette. I want you to sing like Tammy Wynette. And she wasn't very comfortable doing that. And she was singing her own songs. And Larry and the guys take a break, smoke, uh, break outside. And they're talking going, man, he's gonna ruin her. She's got something right, you know, she's got some talent. But, uh, this guy doesn't let up. So Larry is a big guy, over 300 pounds, and he goes up and says, you should back off, you know, and, and the producer being the producer, said, you know, you mind your own business. I know what I'm doing. Just get behind those names. You do what I tell you, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, Larry took enough guff through the years. He looks at him and says, you know what, pal? You're fired. Guy looks at him and says, you can't fire me. He says, oh, yeah, I can arrange it. He says, you're off this project. He said, me and the boys, we're gonna produce this. And so they all go to Chet Adkins. Chet Adkins says, no, Larry doesn't want you. So anyways, they put out the album, and as they say, the rest is history. Because the person doing the recording was Dolly Parton. Oh, yeah.

Marco:  That's amazing.

Dan:  Yep. And it's like Larry would have stories. He'd say, yeah, there I am shopping, you know, with my wife, coming down the, uh, island. Who do I see but dully part and pushing a cart.

Marco:  This is in Nashville.

Dan:  This is in Nashville. Nashville is a great little town.

Marco:  Um, you lived there for a while.

Dan:  Yes. Yes. And it's quite surprising some of the people you run into, you know, um, I was in a little mall, and a storekeeper looked at me and says, you see that, uh, girl down there? Down the aisle? And I look and there's like, four women talking to me. I said, oh, the blonde? Yeah. Uh, I said, you know who that is? I said, no. Very attractive, you know.

Marco:  Sure.

Dan:  But no, I have no idea. I said, oh, that's Carrie Underwood.

Marco:  Oh, wow.

Dan:  So it's one of those funny little places is, uh, you go to symphony, and next thing you know, there's, you know, George Strait or somebody there, uh, you know, with you. It's a very personal little town now. Sure.

Marco:  I remember being at one of the Christmas parties that you had at your place, and there was some musicians there and just talking to them, and they all had Grammys under their belts, and they were all going to these music awards and whatnot. And they were people who worked in the factory and people that you knew, and they were all musicians and very accomplished as well.

Dan:  Yeah, I mean, uh, the thing about Nashville is all types of, uh, music going on. Not just country. It's a lot of rock, a lot of symphonic music that's played there. Uh, Nashville's got a very, very nice symphony, brand new hall. You know, they got flower flooded out years ago, but, uh, nonetheless, uh, quite a bit. And of course, uh, gospel and bluegrass. Yeah.

Marco:  Quite a bit of great music comes and has come from Nashville. What impresses you in a drummer that you listen to, even if you don't know the band and you're listening to a drummer.

Dan:  My grandfather was a musician, and he told me, gave me some sage advice once. He said, go and see all the musicians, all the drummers you can. He said, even if you're better than they are, you can pick up on certain things that will help you. And so I look for some different things, um, drummers that play the same, you know, I'm not that impressed, no matter how good they are. But, um, drummers that have something unique, um, that is, you know, what I look at and I admire, um, and some have done very well. This, uh, guy named Steve Gad, who I got to know many years ago, uh, when we were both young and he became big session drummer out in New york, well schooled, etc. But he has this thing that we call playing behind the beat.

Marco:  Okay.

Dan:  It's almost like he's dragging the beat on the music, but it doesn't feel like the song's being dragged down or anything like that. Now, uh, he's played, uh, some wooden, some very notable people and uh, one of them was Paul Simon.

Marco:  Okay.

Dan:  And back in the day of Simon Gough uncle. But, uh, Paul Simon when he was a solo act and he's done quite a bit of his recordings and if you listen to the drums, like 50 Ways to Leave your lover, right, that a beat that Steve Gad had been playing and practicing by himself. There was something to the count there that he wanted to get down. He had it in his head, but it took a long time for him to figure it out. And so when they went in to do 50 ways Steve, uh, said, gee Paul, I think I got something that might fit in this song. And again, as they say, the rest is history. Right. Uh, but Steve, um, is always on there. But it's a style, it's something that has led the charge for a lot of others.

Marco:  Well, this has been a quality episode, possibly one of the best. I want to thank my father in law, Daniel Barker, for being on this episode. Thank you.

Dan:  So you had to come all the way to Florida?

Marco:  That's right. And it's not even a question of wanting to, to come to Florida, but we have so many of our listeners saying, when are you going to do another episode with your father in law?

Dan:  So, yeah, right.

Marco:  I swear we get a ton of emails asking for you to be on our show. So that said, if you want to hear more with Daniel Barker, go to our patreon page. So patreon.com the insomniaproject. And there's more content there. So if you follow into one of our tiers, you'll see the content that you can get with Daniel Barker. Uh, until the next time that I'm

Dan:  in Florida, look at this. I put my wife asleep. There you go.

Marco:  She's on the bed in the hotel room right now. Fastest thing until next time. I want to thank you. As always, the Insomnia project is, uh, produced by drumcast Productions, and this episode was recorded in Tampa, Florida.

Marco:  And this is Marco just popping back in here to let you know that this particular interview went longer than our 26 minutes. And Dan talks more about drummers and people he's known and, uh, fun little stories about famous people in the music industry. If you want to hear that additional content, it is available on our Patreon page. So if you go to patreon.com theinsomniaproject that's P A T slash the Insomnia Project, you can get the second half or the continuation of this episode where Dan goes into more detail. I know there's a lot of fans of Dan out there, so if you're a Dan fan, go to our Patreon page.

Looking for a relaxing sleep podcast to help you unwind, quiet busy thoughts, or gently fall asleep? In this episode of The Insomnia Project, Marco and Nidhi settle in for a calm and cozy conversation about the simple idea of getting out of town.
Together, they reflect on the quiet pleasure of short trips, day escapes, and stepping away from the familiar just long enough to return with a fresh perspective. From small adventures to the gentle rhythm of travel, the conversation explores how even a brief change of scenery can bring a sense of calm and renewal.
As always, the discussion unfolds in a relaxed, meandering way — low-stakes, soothing dialogue designed to ease anxiety, settle your thoughts, and create the perfect atmosphere for sleep or relaxation.
Whether you’re winding down before bed, taking a mental break during the day, or enjoying peaceful background audio while you work, this episode offers a tranquil listening experience. And if you fall asleep before it ends, that’s exactly what we hope for.
#sleeppodcast #insomniapodcast #relaxingpodcast #sleepconversation #calmpodcast #bedtimepodcast #fallasleepfast

​Get out of town
(Original airdate: June 28, 2018)

Marco: Welcome to the Insomnia Project. Sit back, relax and listen as we have a conversation about the mundane. One thing that we can promise is that our conversation will be somewhat less than fascinating. So that you can just feel free to drop, drift off, relax and hopefully sleep. Thank you for joining us. We hope you will listen and sleep. I'm your host Marco Timpano.

Nidhi:  And I'm your host Nidhi Khanna. And joining us from the other room in a scuttle across the floor was of course Xena. Yes, because it wouldn't be an episode without her scuttling across right as we start recording.

Marco: And Zena of course is your dog in case we have new listeners.

Nidhi:  Exactly.

Marco: But you know, she doesn't get picked up as much as we think because we hear it quite loud. But I don't think she gets picked up as much as my mic as me dropping pens.

Nidhi:  Well this is true. This is true. Although like her drinking water seems like it is a waterfall, but it's a

Marco: repetitive sound that is actually quite nice.

Nidhi:  Yeah, it is.

Nidhi:  Yeah.

Nidhi:  Very therapeutic.

Marco: There you go. Please follow us on Instagram and on twitter@listenandsleep.

Nidhi:  Mhm.

Marco: And thank you for everybody who's rated us. We got some great five star ratings and reviews. Please continue to rate, review and subscribe. As they say, people don't say that as much anymore on podcasts. They used to say it a lot more.

Nidhi:  I'm also thinking that I don't think our Instagram handle is Listen and sleep. Isn't the insomnia part.

Marco: Oh yeah, it probably is.

Nidhi:  We should be better at that. We should be Better at that. You've been, Marco. Um, enjoying some time away from Toronto.

Marco: That's right, I have.

Nidhi:  Getting out of town.

Marco: Yeah, I think that's a good name for this episode.

Nidhi:  There we go.

Marco: The get out of town episode.

Nidhi:  Get out of Town. Does anyone say that anymore?

Marco: It seems like something very twenties Chicago. You were just in Chicago.

Nidhi:  I, uh, was.

Marco: So you got out of town too?

Nidhi:  I did get out of town.

Marco: All right, I'm gonna tell you one of the favorite things that happened to me while was out of town.

Nidhi:  Okay.

Marco: And then you tell me something that happened to you that was kind of cool. From out of town.

Nidhi:  Perfect.

Marco: So I was recently in Orlando, Florida, for work, and the hotel was near Disney Springs.

Nidhi:  Okay.

Marco: Disney at all.

Nidhi:  That whole Disney World area, kind of.

Marco: But it's. It's its own little. It used to be called Downtown Disney and now it's called Disney Springs. Um, and it's just basically restaurants and shopping.

Nidhi:  Okay.

Marco: So I guess if you're done with the park, you can go this little area.

Nidhi:  Is it still, like, Disney themed, though?

Marco: Somewhat. It is, but not as much as the park is.

Nidhi:  Okay.

Marco: And it's free to go to. It's got a huge movie theater and it's got some really cool restaurants with some great chefs.

Nidhi:  Great.

Marco: I think it's this spoon, because I shook the table. There's a little spoon that was bobbing back and forth. A spoon with an orange on the end of it. Well, you know what? We'll take a picture of it and we'll put it on our Instagram so that we.

Nidhi:  Florida. Hey.

Marco: Anyway, so Disney Springs is Disney Springs. So I'll get to that later. But my hotel had a lazy river.

Nidhi:  What's that?

Marco: It's basically a pool that goes around in a circle and you go into an inner tube and you just sit and let the little current take you around.

Nidhi:  Oh, that's amazing. I love those.

Marco: And I was. Amanda, my wife, wanted to go to it. I'm like, I really don't want it. I hate getting into a swimming pool that's not really warm.

Nidhi:  Oh, I'm the same way.

Marco: Because I didn't want to say because it seems. I seem so like.

Nidhi:  And can I tell you, I was recently at my friend Samina's place, and she has. She has moved into this, like, apartment complex condominium, um, in Mississauga, which is just outside of Toronto. And there's a lot of, uh, it's an older apartment box. Both in. Or apartment complex. Both in. Like, it was constructed probably maybe five, six, 10 years ago. It has a pool. And a lot of the residents in this condo building are also a little bit older in age. And so she was telling us when we went downstairs to go use the pool, she was like, because of the age. She, uh, thinks because of the age of some of the people in the building that they really fought for keeping the pool water at a. At a comfortable temperature. So, Marco, I got into this pool. You know how you go into pools and you know, you know those first few steps in the pool are just going to be cold and you're like, okay, now I want to go back into the hot tub. Right. Uh, it was like going into a hot tub. There was no change between the pool water and my, my body temperature. It just felt like. So I think that's what I need.

Marco: I. I always say I want to feel like a tea bag.

Nidhi:  Yes.

Marco: Getting steeped into a pot of tea.

Nidhi:  I agree.

Marco: So the, the Lazy river was like you described. You walked in and it was like the same temperature of your body. Like you didn't notice a difference. You just happened now to be in water. But not only water on a laser, river water. So it just kind of slowly took you and your inner tube around this wonderful little.

Nidhi:  How long was the like or the river?

Marco: The little Lazy river was about, I would say a 10 minute loop.

Nidhi:  Oh, that's pretty good.

Marco: It was a bit of a waterfall you had to avoid if you didn't want to get splashed. So there was a little bit of, you know, you had to avoid it if you don't want to get splash. But that was the biggest thing. And then we went into the pool and the pool was nice too, but I was like, I'm just digging this lazy river.

Nidhi:  Yeah.

Marco: So that was my cool thing that happened in Orlando, Florida. Shout out to all our Floridian listeners. Um, and thank you for that Lazy River.

Nidhi:  That's amazing. I feel like, um, I went to Chicago and did not go into a lazy river.

Marco: Lots of. Chicago's one of my favorite cities.

Nidhi:  I know. It's such a great city. M. And we drove there actually from here.

Marco: Cool.

Nidhi:  Which was cool. Uh, it was cool because when you pass the border from Michigan into Indiana, there's a time change.

Marco: That's right.

Nidhi:  But you've never, if you've never driven during a time change, like, I've never driven across a time change area.

Marco: A time zone.

Nidhi:  A time zone. Thank you. So it's late that we're recording this. Um, so it was just kind of neat to. All of a sudden you Know, after a minute you see, you actually see the time change happen.

Nidhi:  Right.

Marco: Wow.

Nidhi:  You cross over the time zone. So, uh, we, yeah, we drove into Chicago, stayed in a really cool area called Lakeview. So it wasn't like straight downtown, but I, um, was amazed by just all the art and architecture.

Marco: So great.

Nidhi:  The food. The food was amazing.

Marco: You don't need to go anywhere fancy.

Nidhi:  No.

Marco: Chicago has it all. So if you haven't been to Chicago, go to Chicago. Go to Chicago. Love it. The downtown smells like chocolate. Because there's a chocolate factory downtown. Did you experience that?

Nidhi:  No, I did not.

Marco: It's like Chicago. You had me at the architecture and then you cinch the deal with the food. Mhm. And the people are fantastic.

Nidhi:  The people are amazing.

Marco: And then you put chocolate in the air. That's it done. That's it done. Um, I never have to go anywhere else.

Nidhi:  The biggest testament to how amazing that city was, uh, is that it was pouring rain.

Marco: Okay.

Nidhi:  Um, it did not stop raining and we still had an amazing time. So, you know, that's a pretty big. That's a pretty big statement about Chicago.

Marco: There you go. Did you travel through Michigan?

Nidhi:  Yeah.

Marco: Did you stop by Ann Arbor?

Nidhi:  I did. And you know where I, like, I stopped at, um. Oh my God, Zingerman's.

Marco: Okay.

Nidhi:  Uh, which we talked about it.

Marco: Yeah, we did. Isn't that where.

Nidhi:  It's where Obama ate.

Nidhi:  Okay.

Nidhi:  Um, but it's where they have those smoked meat sandwiches. Yeah, yeah, I remember our Ann Arbor. Like what episode number was.

Marco: Okay, so nitty. We should say this. Our podcast has a love for Ann Arbor. I can't remember why. If you listen to that episode, maybe it'll be revealed. But after we did an Ann Arbor episode, we both kind of fell in love with that place. We love to mention Ann Arbor. Maybe we have some dedicated listeners in Ann Arbor. And that's why I think that was it. Nidhi. I think when we first started, we had a lot of listeners from Ann Arbor, so.

Nidhi:  And I didn't realize what a university town is. So I'm pretty sure that that's a lot of college students. Students who are like, I can't sleep.

Marco: That's cool.

Nidhi:  Um, and so that's amazing. Shout out to the college students who can't sleep. Um, hold on, I want to find out. I need to find out what episode. Uh, that Ann Arbor. It was one of our first.

Marco: It was like, I would say in the top 20. The first 20. Yeah, the first 20 that we did. So how was that place you went to? The smoked meat sandwich. Because here's the thing. Our listeners need to know. If there's somebody who's gonna know about smoking smoked meat sandwiches, it's going to be nitty. Because Montreal, your hometown, is well known for smoked meat sandwiches.

Nidhi:  Can I tell you the most embarrassing thing? I don't really eat smoked meat.

Marco: Oh, well, then I take back everything I just said.

Nidhi:  I know, it's really, um, it's really disturbing.

Marco: I think probably for me, different stokes for different folks.

Nidhi:  But I really enjoyed Zingerman's. It was great. It was. I, I really enjoyed Ann Arbor. We got to walk around a little bit.

Marco: I love Ann Arbor.

Nidhi:  I didn't realize what a, what an amazing city it is. And, and so close to Detroit. Like, it's only half an hour from Detroit, so it's not too far.

Marco: And Detroit, I love Detroit. People have. People have this, people have this image of Detroit. And I, uh, invite everyone who hasn't been there in a while to go, go to Detroit. It's got a great art scene, great jazz scene, great, great food, great people, great architecture.

Nidhi:  Oh, look, that's me trying to play

Marco: Minnie's playing the episode.

Nidhi:  Hold on, maybe I should put the volume down. Um, yeah. And so the entire time I was like, what did we say during the Ann Arbor? I should have listened to the episode.

Marco: You could have.

Nidhi:  Uh, I didn't do any research.

Marco: That's fine.

Nidhi:  I'm the worst.

Marco: Okay, while you're looking into Ann Arbor, tell me. I just recently came back from New Jersey as well. This really is the get out of Town episode. I didn't realize this is what, what I was going to be talking about, but. So once again, people have this perception of the state of New Jersey and it kind of bothers me because I, every time I go to New Jersey, I love it.

Nidhi:  Really?

Marco: I love New Jersey.

Nidhi:  Um, what do you love about New Jersey?

Marco: I love it. It's real. The people are just. I just really dig the people. It's got a great food scene, Niddy. Okay, so first of all, we. You and I love to eat, clearly, because we talk about food incessantly. So I apologize to our listeners who are like, I'm trying to sleep and all that. They're just making me hungry. But we were in Jersey City once again for work, and love how you

Nidhi:  have to qualify, I guess.

Marco: I don't know.

Nidhi:  We were in Jersey City for work.

Marco: No. Uh, I don't know why I qualified it, but I did. But anyways, we were there for work, and so, you know what it is because when you go somewhere for work, you have low expectations because you're probably not going to see much.

Nidhi:  Right.

Nidhi:  Because you're. And you're always like, near the airport.

Marco: Yeah. Or like, you don't see much of the place. And. But we had a date where we got to kind of just wander around a bit. And so I said to Amanda, I'm like, rather than going to New York City, why don't we go to Hoboken? Because I really want to go to Hoboken. And it's not that I'm a. That's Sinatra's birthplace. So a lot of people immediately associate Hoboken with Sinatra. But I remember when I lived in New York City, is that sort of

Nidhi:  across the street, like across the way from New York City?

Marco: It's across the river. Yeah.

Nidhi:  Right, right. Okay.

Marco: So. And when I lived in New York City, people were talking about Hoboken as the new hot place. Basically, Hoboken is what Brooklyn is today, not Brooklyn is the place to be and to live.

Nidhi:  Sure.

Marco: That was Hoboken in the late 90s.

Nidhi:  Okay.

Marco: Somewhat. So I was like, I've always wanted to go here. So Amanda looked on the map, she said we could walk. So I was like, all right, let's go for a walk. Hoboken is a charming, lovely city or town in New Jersey that I recommend everybody go check out. And, you know, we got a great canoli. They have a great little downtown area. They've got. It had a great little buzz. There was people out, young people walking around, old people having a good time. We walked through a park and they were playing some Latin music and people.

Nidhi:  Nothing bad clearly happens in Hobart.

Marco: Not to me. Not to me. So. So. And then we had. Then we went from Jersey City in Hoboken, we went to another place nearby. I don't think it was in Jersey City. I'm sorry, I can't remember the town.

Nidhi:  But you walked again?

Marco: No, this time we took an Uber, but it wasn't far. It just happened to be raining. We met friends at a bar.

Nidhi:  Oh, nice.

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Marco: I love oysters.

Nidhi:  Oh, uh, yeah, they're the best.

Marco: And they have some local oysters that were tremendous, tremendous. So great. I love oysters.

Nidhi:  New England oysters are nice, but I guess that's not New England.

Marco: That's New Jersey. No, it's New Jersey. It was Jersey oysters.

Nidhi:  Oh, really?

Marco: Yeah, they were just. They were just plucked out of the water. Here you go. A little bit of lemon and boom.

Nidhi:  Done.

Marco: Done.

Nidhi:  Uh, um, the Ann Arbor episode was episode 13 in our first episode. Our first season of 130 episodes or whatever we did.

Marco: If you haven't heard that episode, we strongly, strongly request that you go back

Nidhi:  and listen to Bagels, Breads and Ann Arbor.

Marco: That's right. So we talk a lot about food. Nitty.

Nidhi:  We really do.

Marco: Okay, so tell me something that's not food related that you enjoyed in Chicago.

Nidhi:  Oh, the Art Institute's amazing.

Marco: Out of this world.

Nidhi:  Yeah. Like, you can spend the whole day just from back to front there.

Marco: Was there something that stood out as far as, uh, pieces so much.

Nidhi:  They had a really cool exhibit, like a photography exhibit, um, which I'm not quite sure if it was part of their permanent collection or if it was a rotating, uh, exhibit which, uh, really kind of highlighted the history of the black civil rights movement in Chicago. Uh, in the start of it. Right. Because it really was the birthplace.

Marco: I saw something like that in the airport last time I went through Ohares.

Nidhi:  Yeah.

Nidhi:  Yeah, yeah. So there was all these really amazing photos of, like, uh, you know, uh, the Black Panther movement and. And, uh, you know, Martin Luther King. And it was just. It was really. It was really interesting and, uh, really great to see. Uh, because we don't get that level of, I don't know, not that level. That's not the right word. But we don't usually get exhibits, um,

Marco: of that kind of caliber or that nature. Or that nature.

Nidhi:  Uh, or that level of content.

Marco: Sure.

Nidhi:  Right. I think that's what I'm. I needed. I wanted to say. Uh. So, yeah, it was really. It was really great to just have that, uh, or to see that. Uh, we did a lot of like, uh, using the public transport there, which seems. It's like really great. You can get anywhere on that. So great system on the L. And like it was really cool to be on the L. And uh, I was

Marco: a big fan of er.

Nidhi:  Yes, me too. And I always used to remember that. I know. Uh, and just like even hanging out on the loop, like it was just. It's a really well thought out city and they have a. I mean the bean was so much fun. Like it's just so nice to walk around there. Right.

Marco: So that bean. So you know Tiffany has a bean necklace.

Nidhi:  Oh, do they?

Marco: Have you never seen it?

Nidhi:  No.

Marco: I don't know if it's modeled after that bean.

Nidhi:  Okay.

Marco: But it has a similar sort of look. Amanda has one. So for Amanda's M. Birthday, my sister said, what should we get for Amanda? It was, it was uh, an important birthday. So I said, you know, she really wants a Tiffany bean necklace. So my sister got it for her. And then her sister had a significant birthday, so we bought it for her. And then my sister had a significant birthday so we bought it for her. So all the sisters, amazing in my family. So my wife, her sister, my sister, all the female, um, siblings, I guess you could say.

Nidhi:  Yeah.

Marco: All have this really neat bean necklace. And what's interesting is that my sister in law, so Amanda's sister and my sister, you'll 9 out of 10 times they'll be wearing that bean necklace. They just love it. They wear it all the time, so it's really quite lovely. And the other thing is it looks great on them, I have to say.

Nidhi:  Yeah, we went to this really cool, um, speakeasy bar called the Violet Hour. Have you heard of.

Marco: No, but I love it already.

Nidhi:  It's um, in the Wicker park area. And every time I think of Wicker park, all I can think of is that movie with like Josh Hartnett or whatever where he was playing some, I think from the 18, 1800s.

Marco: Okay.

Nidhi:  Some. Anyways, Whatever. I don't know. It was a very good movie if I remember correct. But uh, all that to say that Wicker, uh, park was really, really cool. And this Violet, our place, like Marco, we were told by multiple people, start lining up before 6pm before it opens. Because it's like you gotta get in at 6 or just don't go.

Marco: Right.

Nidhi:  And even in our Airbnb they had listed that as like, wow.

Marco: It's one of the things.

Nidhi:  It's one of the things. And get there early.

Marco: What time did you get there?

Nidhi:  So we uh, there's a lot of really great vintage uh, stores in that area. So we were kind of shopping around in those vintage pop ups. And then uh, we got. So we got there at like 5:50. That's it, right? We're like 5:50. Five.

Nidhi:  Whatever.

Nidhi:  We'll get there right at six. You know, Marco, there was already a lineup. It was insane. And so we got in line but we were still part of the first few people to come in. So that was great because it's like once the place is open, you know, they just had to seat you. There was enough seating. Uh, and you go in and it's bright, bright, bright sunshine outside. Well it wasn't sunny at that time, but it was bright outside. You go in and it's like dark. So dark. Like dark to the point where I'm like, this is dangerous.

Marco: You know, if you're gonna go to

Nidhi:  speakeasy, you gotta go to the darkest one possible.

Marco: I don't think a speakeasy should have any light. It should be like you're entering into a pinhole camera.

Nidhi:  It's. That's exactly what this was. And apparently it's one of the best cocktail bars in the states or something.

Marco: Okay, so now I need to know what you had.

Nidhi:  I can't for the life of me. I know, I know.

Marco: What was the base, what was the alcohol base?

Nidhi:  Uh, I believe it was rum.

Marco: Okay.

Nidhi:  I think I had a Dark and Stormy at one point. Just like a simple Dark and stormy.

Marco: So you had several cocktails?

Nidhi:  Yeah, they were very boozy. Uh.

Marco: Oh, they know how to pour in.

Nidhi:  Uh m. But it was great. Yeah. We started with the cocktail and then just being there and having like a friend. My friend who I was with had a gin and tonic. I had a Dark and Stormy and it was like that was even just good enough. We didn't need to have a fancy cocktail because I don't know if it was the rum. The base that they were using was just so incredible. And uh, yeah, that was, that was one of the highlights.

Marco: Okay, so if you want to go to a cocktail bar in Chicago.

Nidhi:  Mhm.

Marco: That is like one of those just classic Chicago places that has been around for years and years. You got to go to the Pump Room.

Nidhi:  The Pump Room.

Marco: The Pump Room in Chicago is famous because everybody in pop culture history from a certain area era went there. I think, I think it opened up in the 30s. The, the. The actual Pump Bar. And it's one of those places that you go and you're like, oh, this is where all those, like Lena Horn and sinatra, Sammy Davis Jr. All these people played and hung out. And it's like, this is the place where people want to be seen and to see. And they make a strong, awesome drink there. Yeah. I just, I just pulled it out. So, like John Barrymore, Marilyn Monroe.

Nidhi:  Wow.

Marco: Judy Garland, Bette Davis, Oprah Winfrey, David Bowie, Natalie Wood, Robert Wagner, Paul Newman.

Nidhi:  All these.

Marco: Humphrey Bogart, Elizabeth Taylor, Lena Horne, Joan Crawford, Liza Minnelli, Robert Redfoot. All these people went to the Pump Room. M. So next time you're there, the Pump Room. Pump Room is where you got to go. Just for one cotto. You go there, you have a nice.

Nidhi:  Yeah.

Marco: Martini and start your night there. Go to your speakeasy and there you go. Now you're going at the end of the summer to do something fun.

Nidhi:  Yeah. I am going to be going, uh, back to the Caribbean. I'm going to get, like, my diving certification.

Marco: So. Great.

Nidhi:  I'm really excited. So I'm going to do part of the course here, which is like more of the theory and water and. Sorry. In the pool. And then you go, I can go down there and you have to do like four open water dives.

Marco: Wow.

Nidhi:  And then you become certified. I'm both terrified and excited at the same time.

Marco: That's great. That's a great combination. I think it's a great combination.

Nidhi:  I feel like, what am I getting myself into? But I feel like anything in my life where I have kind of been let throw caution to the wind and just do it and stop thinking so much about it, uh, has led to amazing things. So.

Marco: So stay tuned, listeners, because when Niddy gets back, we'll have her scuba episode where she describes what she saw.

Nidhi:  Yes.

Marco: How it went.

Nidhi:  Yes, I know. All the fishes.

Marco: Yeah.

Nidhi:  I feel like you should be doing scuba.

Marco: I would love to do that. And I've snorkeled before, but I'm not a strong swimmer and I sometimes get scared. So perhaps scuba diving would be a good, a good fit for me. Um, but time will tell. Right now, right now I, I want to hear. I want to hear and see it through your eyes. And then, and then. But I've done things like that on a lark. Like things that have really scared me that I've just been like, okay, I'm not a huge fan of roller coasters.

Nidhi:  Oh, I hate rollers.

Marco: But I could. I, I, I've gone on ones that I have. Sorry. That I haven't wanted to go on before. And, uh, um, I'm not, I'm not good with heights, but every once in a while I'll like, I guess friends convince me to climb high places and I'm like, I really am not enjoying this. But I'll do it because everyone else seems to want to do it.

Nidhi:  You know what, Marco? I have decided never to go up on the CN Tower again.

Marco: So for our listeners who aren't aware, the CN Tower is a very, very tall tower that kind of marks our skyline. So you know how Seattle has their needle, um, what's it called? The Seattle Needle.

Nidhi:  Mhm.

Marco: Toronto has the CN Tower.

Nidhi:  Yep.

Marco: And it's a very, very tall tower.

Nidhi:  Yeah. For, for many, many, many years it was the tallest, I think freestanding, I

Marco: want to say from 77 when it was built, until about the early 2000s

Nidhi:  or mid 2000s, uh, before the Malaysian tower was built.

Marco: That's right. It was the tallest freestanding structure.

Nidhi:  Uh, and if you go, you can. There's obviously an observation deck and go up there. And there's also a part of the observation deck that is like glass bottomed so you can see down if that's something you're into and it's something you do. Obviously whenever someone comes to town, they want to go see the CN Tower, etc. Etc. I hate it.

Marco: Okay, well, I love it so really,

Nidhi:  I do like it so high up.

Marco: I know.

Nidhi:  No, I can't.

Marco: There you go.

Nidhi:  Done, Done with the CN Tower.

Marco: I love it. I'll always go, I love you CN Tower. I'll always go up you. So there you go.

Nidhi:  Would you ever do the edge walk thing?

Marco: Never, never, never. Would you do that?

Nidhi:  No. That would be like my nightmare.

Marco: I shouldn't say never because if I got a role that required me to do it, oh man, it would be hard. But I might do it. But no, I'm, I'm. That's not my thing.

Nidhi:  No, no.

Marco: But I'll give a little tip to our listeners. So m. You didn't hear this from me, but if you're in Toronto and you want to go to the CN Tower, it can be quite pricey to go up. But they have a restaurant up there and if you tell them that you're going to the restaurant, you have to pay for a meal, but it kind of covers the cost of you going up and you get.

Nidhi:  Might as well just have the food.

Marco: You didn't hear it from me, folks,

Nidhi:  but smart, smart traveling. Wow.

Marco: Is there anything that you like to bring when you do a short jaunt out of town?

Nidhi:  Good question. Good question. I find, uh, I need to make sure that I have comfortable pajamas. Like, my pajamas have to be good, like, just out of everything.

Marco: I think after people listen to the luxury episode, they know how important that is to me. You know what I love when I go for short jaunts? I love turning on the TV in the hotel and seeing what's on.

Nidhi:  That's not just short jaunts, though. That's any jaunt.

Marco: But particularly, like, when I'm in a city where it's like, I watch their local news.

Nidhi:  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know.

Marco: Because they mention places you don't know. Yeah.

Nidhi:  And it's. There's always, like, a personality, right?

Marco: Oh, for sure.

Nidhi:  The place.

Marco: So the weather person, the sports person, the anchor, the person who's to the left of the anchor.

Nidhi:  It's true. You can tell a lot by the. By the newsroom.

Marco: When you grew up in Montreal, did you watch any news programs that came from the U.S. because in Toronto, we watched a lot of stuff that came out of Buffalo.

Nidhi:  Yeah, same here. Buffalo.

Marco: Oh, was it Buffalo that you guys got?

Nidhi:  Was the big one one sometimes, like Burlington, Vermont, or, um, Albany and stuff like that, but it was mostly Buffalo.

Marco: I've never been to Vermont.

Nidhi:  Um, I've been to Stowe, Vermont, which is kind of like a ski town. Uh, but other than that, not really.

Marco: Okay, well, that's. That's. Next time I get out of town, I want to go to Vermont.

Nidhi:  Well, there you go.

Marco: All right.

Nidhi:  It's also a cool sounding name.

Marco: Well, if you haven't had, uh, a chance to fall asleep yet, we hope the next time you get to town, you have a great time.

Nidhi:  There you go. As always, we are recording from Toronto. Uh, please follow us on Twitter @listensleep, but on Instagram at the Insomnia Project. And, uh, as always, we're produced by Drum Cast Productions, and we will see you or speak to you.

Marco: Yeah, I think that's good.

Nidhi:  Next time.

Looking for a relaxing sleep podcast to help you unwind, quiet busy thoughts, or gently fall asleep? In this solo episode of The Insomnia Project, Marco settles in for a calm and gently wandering conversation about his quiet quest for a golden prize.
Through soft storytelling and reflective moments, Marco explores the small details, observations, and thoughts that come with pursuing something a little unusual. The episode unfolds at an unhurried pace, allowing the narrative to drift naturally in the soothing, low-stakes style listeners have come to expect.
This gentle, meandering conversation is designed to ease anxiety, quiet the mind, and help guide you toward rest — making it an ideal sleep podcast for bedtime, relaxation, or peaceful background listening during your day.
Whether you’re settling in to fall asleep, taking a calming break, or simply looking for a tranquil listening experience, this episode offers a soft place to land. And if you don’t make it to the end, that’s exactly what we hope for.
#sleeppodcast #insomniapodcast #relaxingpodcast #sleepconversation #calmpodcast #bedtimepodcast #fallasleepfast

​The Quest
(Original airdate: July 18, 2018) 

Welcome to the Insomnia Project. Sit back, relax, maybe lie down, make yourself comfortable. Listen, we're going to have an episode where I have 26 minute of light conversation that will hopefully allow you to just relax and enjoy your evening or your day or your afternoon, depending on when you're listening to this podcast. I am your host, Marco Timpano, and this is a, uh, solo episode. That's right. This is an episode where it's just going to be me, me and you on this podcast today. I spent most of the day riding around on my scooter, and I was riding back and forth because I was in search of hardware for my new powder room, faucet, sink faucet. So I was looking for. I was actually looking for the faucet that will go in our powder room. And what we're looking for is gold faucets and a gold lever for the toilet. Of course, it seems almost impossible to find gold because who has gold or brass faucet taps and the flusher or the lever of a toilet? But we're doing a powder room, and we're making it look really special, let's say. And we decided that, oh, you know, gold, little gold accents would really help make this room pop. And of course, you know, when you casually sort of decide that, you don't think, oh, how practical, or how easy is it going to be to acquire these. These items for the powder room? So today I spent the day driving to various, you know, kitchen and bath stores, and I was looking for gold color or brass faucet. And they were so expensive, so they were like, you know, pure brass. And they were far above the budget that we want to spend in the powder room. So then I spoke with someone, and they said, you should really try the Habitat for Humanity stores or the Restores, as they're called here. And I said, that's a great idea, because oftentimes people will return items or they'll donate items. And some of the items might be older. So if you get something from the 70s or 80s or even the 60s, perhaps they'll have gold faucet and then you can take that hardware and put it with your new sink. So I was like, okay, I'm on a bit of a mission. So I went to this one place, and they didn't have it. And the salesperson was really lovely, and she was like, you know, you should try one of these two stores and just call them, and they'll let you know if they have one. And she had mentioned that these two stores generally will have things more in that vein. So I was like, oh, this is great. This is leading me on a path. And it was a lovely day today. So it was like, the sun was out and it was warm, but it wasn't blistering hot, and there wasn't humidity. So it was a comfortable, lovely, sunny summer day. Perfect day for riding around on the scooter. So I called one place, and they were like, I'm sorry, we. We don't carry any of that. I'm m. Like, no problem. I'm glad you let me know. So I. I didn't, you know, waste my day coming down. And then this other place said, yes, we do have that, and we do have it in golden color. And I said, wow. And she's like, we have a few. So I'm like, oh, this is great. And then I was like, oh, I should just go down. I shouldn't wait on it. So I packed up my. My gear, and I said, I'll go. It'll take me a good 45 minutes, and it's all across the city, but I'm gonna do it. So I hopped on my scooter, went for a lovely drive. Once again, I went on one of my favorite streets, which is Bloor Street. And Bloor street in Toronto is a long street, and it stretches quite a bit. And, you know, I love the annex, which is this, you know, bohemian, sort of artsy student area that is found on Bloor Street. I love Koreatown, and that's found on Bloor Street. And I was heading to Bloor street west, so I was heading west to an area that has some really funky, cool shops on it as well. And I wasn't planning to get out and look at those shops, but even just driving by them and seeing them on a lovely day, there's such a lovely feeling. So I was like, all right, I'll go on this mission. And I went into this Habitat for Humanity store, and it was fantastic. It had just some fantastic things that people had donated. There was a champagne bucket, an old champagne bucket. It was $40. And I was like, this is such a stunning looking piece that would just look great on a shelf or if you used it for champagne. It just looked like a great solid piece. It wasn't what I was looking for. And I didn't want to pack it on my scooter because I was on a mission. And I went to go look and then I found the faucets that the person who I'd phoned had told me about. And they were bathtub faucets in antique brass. So you know, antique brass has that sort of golden brown look. And I was looking more for a bright gold look. So I was like, all right, it's not here, it's fine. It was a lovely day. Explore the store. So I was like, alright, I'll go in this Habitat for Humanity store and see what they have. And you know, I, as I said I had noticed that cool champagne bucket and then I noticed an old piano and it was really kind of neat. And then I noticed a Singer, one of those old Singer pedestal sewing machines and they were selling it for $200. And I thought, oh wow, what a cool, interesting piece. And I remember my grandmother had one of those and it was like hers. I remember being even older that you would use the pedal with your feet going back and forth, back and forth to make the actual sewing machine work. And I always wondered what happened to that because I so remember it and I so associated with my grandmother that I wish I had had it in my possession, but who knows what happened to it. And I was like, okay, so that's that, that's what, what they're worth about 200 it seemed at least at the uh, at the restore. And then I noticed, and it was like, you know, you see, you see tables and chairs and stuff that you remember from the 80s or you know, from your grandmother's house. And then I noticed this executive desk. And it was this big, big desk. It would take up a huge, I would say it would take up about 110 square feet, this desk. Because it came around almost like a, like a um, like a U shape, like a very square U shape. And it was just this big wooden executive desk that somebody would have had. It almost seemed like something that would be placed in the White House or in, in a old style, big executive, I don't know, like a throwback anyways. You could see like uh, an executive. A movie studio from the 40s would have this kind of a desk. And I was like, what a great piece. But nobody could put that in their Home office, that's for sure. And even their office. It would take up so much space that you would have to be someone who required a desk that big. But it was fascinating. It was almost like being in a contemporary museum. And, you know, there was so many different pieces there that I could just go on and on about it. But, um, you know, what a great day. What a great way to spend your day. In search of golden faucets. The quest of golden faucets, if you will. That was my day. And, uh, you know, there's a few things that I like to do when I get a chance, depending on how busy my day is. And there's, um, an app that I use. It's called Voxer, and I'll often Voxer friends of mine. And Voxer is like a WhatsApp where you can sort of send a brief message up to 15 minutes to your friend, and your friend will pick up that message whenever they can. So it's a great tool to communicate with people who live in great distances from you. So I have a friend in Los Angeles, and oftentimes I will sort of tell him about my day or what's going on during my day. And because of the time difference, it will be really, really early in the morning for him. And by the time he listens to my message, he's heading to work, and half my day has gone. Gone by. But he'll have listened to the beginning part of my day, to which he'll often, on his drive to work, respond or tell me what's going on with his day. And I'll pick it up either later on in the day while he's at work, and I'll sort of cap it up, uh, by saying, oh, you know, this is the results of what I was concerned about, or this is what happened with, you know, the meeting I was gonna have that day. And it's such a great tool. We have such great tools of communication these days and those kind of apps where you can. You can sort of hear the person's voice. So it's not an email or a text, but it's this sort of moment in time that's frozen and sent to a buddy or friend or family member of yours through one of these apps that you can then later go back and listen to. And. And you can listen to it whenever you want. But you know that there's that message waiting from wherever in the world. And, um, it's a part of my day that I always look forward to. So I'll m. Listen. And sometimes you'll just be talking. And sometimes what will happen too is you'll forget that you've pressed the button or something's happened. And so you'll talk for a good 10 minutes before you real it hasn't been recording. And then you'll have to sort of give the gist of it so that you're not re recording another 10 to 15 minute message because you've just spoken to yourself for no reason. But, um, which isn't always a bad thing either. Sometimes you can address what's going on in your day by just talking out loud to yourself. I'm certainly just talking to a microphone myself right now for this episode. So I hope you're. I hope you're either nodding in agreement or nodding off at this point. Um, I'm trying to think of other things that I'm in search of because I feel like that quest for the faucet is sort of the theme that I want to explore on this episode. You know, I've had some quests in my life. Quests to go see certain sites or attend certain events. I know that I. One of the quests I had was to attend a particular festival in New York that happens every September. And I was like, oh, I really want to go to that. But I was never in New York around that time. And then one year I happened to catch that festival and it was such a great time. And I have a friend who lives in New York, and I was able to meet up with her and we were able to explore the festival. And to be honest with you, the festival wasn't as great as I had imagined it was going to be. That said, uh, though being with my friend at New York at this festival actually made it quite, quite great. I remember too, one time me and my friend were backpacking through Europe. And whenever I travel with a friend and we're going to a place that we anticipate and we really want to go to, I always say, all right, you pick the place that you really want to explore and we'll do one day where we just explore that. And we'll explore it however long you want. And if you want to stay longer, that's totally cool, I'll go off and do something else, or I'll hang out at a cafe while you explore the museum or the park or wherever we happen to be. And then on one day, we'll do what I want to do and we'll just do it thoroughly. That way no one feels any pressure. And if that person wants to stay longer, they can, and no one's going to pressure them to get going or whatnot. So my buddy Loretto and I went to the Palio, Il Palio in Siena, and that's a medieval horse race that they do in the main piazza. And that was the thing that he really wanted to do. So he was like, I really want to do the Palio. And I was like, all right, a horse race. If this is what you want to do, we'll do it. And we got up early to get our seats, and we got our seats, a great seat in the piazza, and people were rolling in. And pretty soon the piazza filled up and there was this growing excitement. And I was like, wow, this is really exciting. And I had no, no real plan. Like, I had no real, I was like, I, I, I didn't have any agenda here. This was what he wanted to, but I was getting excited. And then I started to ask him, like, how does this work? What exactly goes on? And we started to meet people. We met somebody from California who then became my pen pal for a while. And I was like, getting excited in the horse race. And people were coming in dressed in their medieval costumes and throwing flags and whatnot. And the horse race happened and it was like a maybe a 90 second race. It was over almost as fast as it started, but it was so much excitement in that short time. And everybody was cheering and whatnot, and the winners were so happy. And it was a great experience. That wasn't even my quest. It was my friend's quest, but I had so much fun at, uh, that quest. So then it was my turn to, to follow my quest. And since we were traveling through Europe, I said, let's go. I've always wanted to go to Salzburg, Austria. And here's a funny thing. So I have a fascination with the movie the Sound of Music, because every year, you know, there's a movie that your family watches and you just, at the youngest age you can remember, you get enveloped in this film, that it's an important part of your family, and it becomes a film that resonates with you. So because the, the backdrop of Salzburg Ostro reminded my mom of her homeland or her hometown, I should say, her and her family would always watch this film. And so growing up, every Christmas when it was on, we would watch this film. And so I pretty much, I could probably recite the entire movie. If you press play or started the movie and I was watching it with you, I could. And you said, can you say all the lines before it happens? I probably could say a good 80% of the lines. Because I remember from even before I could speak, I remember watching. I remember watching it as a young child and at my grandmother's house, after we've had Christmas dinner, we'd sit and we'd watch it. And there'd be parts that people would laugh, and there was music. And sometimes we. You know, as I got older, I'd be playing games, and I could hear in the background. So I said to. I said to my buddy, I really want to go to Salzburg, and I want to go on a Sound of Music tour. I want to see all the sights that I've seen in this movie for decades now. And he's like, I've never seen this movie. I'm like, well, we did what you wanted to do. Now you're gonna do what I want to do. And he was like, oh, my goodness. I can't believe. He was like, uh, all right, let's do it. So we booked ourselves a, uh, Sound of Music tour. And we hopped on a bus. It took us to where the kids swung off the trees, where they fell into the water. The church where the family was married. The downtown where she splashes water on a horse in a fountain. And all these little moments in the film we saw. And I think during the bus rides, they play the soundtrack. And my buddy was like, this is incredible. He goes, this is something that I would never, ever do. But I'm having such fun just watching everybody, like, singing along and having a good time and seeing things they recognize. And he goes, seeing aspects of a movie that I only have a vague, foggy kind of knowledge of because people talk about it. But he goes, I couldn't tell you anything about the movie. And he was surprised that I knew so much about the movie. And so we did that for the day. And we had seen so much of Salzburg because of it. He goes, you know, I feel like I got to know this city really well through the eyes of this film, and I'm so happy that I did it. So it was two sort of adventures that I. That we had gone on for each other and really enjoyed it. And this happened also on a trip to California, where we landed in San Francisco and drove to Los Angeles. And along the way, one of the people we went with was like, I really want to go to Las Vegas. So we're like, we'll go to Las Vegas. So we went. We went to Las Vegas, and we got to see Las Vegas. And he wanted to gamble, I think, at the. MGM was one of his Things. So we all went gambling at the mgm and then we. We did everybody else's. And I'm trying to think what mine was. Mine, I think was. Oh, I don't. I don't. I think mine was to drive the bridges in San Francisco. So we did the Golden Gate Bridge and the Bay. The Bay Bridge, if I'm not mistaken. Oh, please correct me if I got that wrong. Our listeners from San Francisco and then our other friend, she wanted to. Oh, you know, when it escapes you, I don't remember. And I'm sure it'll come to me, but, uh, yeah, these are some quests that I've been on. So I kind of talked about the top of my day and what I did for most of the day today. And then I talked about some other quests I've been on. I should talk about the latter part of my day, which is. Which. Which is what happened just before I started recording. So right now there's a fringe festival going on in the city. And if you're not familiar with fringe festivals or if there's not one that's happening in your city or town, it's basically a festival where people put up various shows. So the Toronto Fringe Festival is such that these theaters throughout the city get reserved for these 10 days or 12 days. And if you get picked, you can do your show at a certain venue and at various times so people can come see your show. And, uh, you know, people come into the city to see various shows. It's a great way to see quite a bit of theater, from comedy to drama to musical to kids shows. It's all there at this festival. And Edmonton Fringe Festival in Canada is huge. And the Edinburgh Fringe Festival in Scotland is the largest. And there'll be performers from all over who come to do shows here. Anyway, so I had to take my wife. She was going to see a show. She's at a show right now. She's seen a musical about Andy Warhol's life. So it's an Andy Warhol musical is what she's gone to see this evening. So I said, let's get on the scooter. It's been such a beautiful day and I'll take you down. So I'm taking her down and I'm, um, on Bathurst Street. I know I've name dropped quite a few streets. Once again, this is one of my favorite streets to be on. I've always loved Bathurst. And not that it's a particularly lovely street, although it's. It's charming in itself. But I Love Bathurst street because it was the first street when I first started driving at 16 from the burbs. It was the street I knew to take to get into the city. So I would always take Bathurst because Bathurst would take me to where I would pick up the highway to get back home and I could get off at Bathurst and just take it to get downtown. So for me it's very nostalgic. We're driving on Bathurst and all of a sudden I feel something odd with the scooter. I'm like, oh, something's going on. So I pulled over and sure enough, flat tire. So my wife's like, oh, you know what, I'll stay with you. I'm like, no, you have a show to go see. You have a friend who's waiting for you. You go see that show, I'll deal with a flat tire. A flat tire is not the end of the world. It's just a flat. It's a flat. So, um, it was more than a flat, it's really flat. And I called CA to come pick up my scooter and they were taking it to a scooter shop, which I'll deal with tomorrow. But once again, it was this, this sort of adventure that I was on. I now had to wait for the tow truck person and I was like, oh, they had said it's going to take about 55 minutes. So I was like, well, 55 minutes. I'm not going to stand here with the scooter. It's in a safe place. I pulled it over into a little parking spot. I'm gonna go for a little stroll. And now I'm on Bathurston College. And College street has a lot of little bars and whatnot. And I went to this little. And my phone of course was losing its power. Like I had very little power left. I'm like, I should find a place that can charge my phone. So I found this place and it's called Snakes and Lattes. And it's basically one of these places where it's a bar or a cafe where they've got all different kinds of board games and different kinds of games from Jenga to Catan type games to loud games to quiet games and you go there and you pay a certain amount. You can pick any game off the shelf and you play while you with your friends, while you drink coffees or beers and you have a good time and you pay for however long you're there. So I walked into that place and I'm like, hey there, I need to charge my phone. And I just thought of all the places that I could find, most likely they'll. Because it's a gaming place, they certainly must have forms of technology and they'd probably be able to help. So I went up to the person, he's like, can I, can I find you? Can I help you? I was like, I'm not here to sit and play, but I do want to see the games that you have for sale. I got my car has my. Sorry, my scooter has a flat and I'm just waiting for the tow person but my phone is dying. Is there any way we could charge your phone? And once again, this person was really lovely and was like, yeah, let me see what I can do. And he went to the bar and he, I think he removed the charger from their tablets where they sort of key in the drinks you want. And he charged my, my phone. And I knew I had a good 20 to 25 minutes in, in that store. So I was looking at various games, board games and various games and thinking, oh, could I play this with my niece and nephew, you know, or is it too advanced or too a game that requires you to be older? And then a few moments later he said, sir, your phone is ringing. I said, oh, thank you. And I picked it up and sure enough it was the um, tow company saying that somebody was going to be there in five minutes. I said, thank you so much. And it charged my phone just the right amount. And so I went and met up with the tow truck person. This really sounds like a quest now at this point, point the quest of my day. So the tow truck person comes and, and he brings, so I've got a scooter, he brings the largest flatbed truck one could ever hope to have come. And I was like, you've brought this for my scooter. And he's like, yeah, when I get a call, I just go for wherever the car call is. I'm like, you could put three car on this flatbed. And he's like, I know, but, well, I'm going to take your scooter. So I was like, okay, he's taking my scooter. And I'm like, I live around the corner. Do you need me to go with you to this shop that's closed? He's like, I know the shop. I'm like, I just don't know where you're going to put my scooter. I don't know where he goes. Don't worry about it, I will find a place to put it. And I'LL take a photo and send it to you. And I said, oh, that's really nice. So this tow truck person was sort of going out of his way. After the person at the games cafe went out of his way, I was like, all right, you know, a flat tire is not the greatest thing in the world, but everybody seems to be really lovely. And I'm like, alright, I'm gonna take a Lyft or an Uber home. I happened to take a Lyft. It was my first Lyft ride that I took. And the driver, whose name is Katelyn, was really, really lovely. And I got to sit in the front of the car because there's people in the back. And I took one of those shared, um, rides. I forget what they call them for Lyft, but what you. You get what I'm saying? It's more than one person. And, you know, I just started talking to her and saying what a nice night it was and said, do you mind if I roll down your window? She's like, no, it's a great night. So we were chatting and she was telling me her favorite podcast and, you know, I told her I was a podcaster and she wanted to know more about the Insomnia Project. So if you're listening, Caitlin, thank you for a lovely ride. And it was one of those rides, one of those Uber rides where you're having a great time speaking with a driver and you realize it's a short distance, so you're already home. But it was lovely and I thanked her and, uh, she was like, it was lovely having you in my vehicle. And actually, as I look at the time, it was lovely having you on my quest. After the Uber, after, sorry, the Lyft ride, I came home and I'm like, gonna record a podcast and then I'm gonna post it right away. So thank you for listening, as always. The Insomnia Project is recorded, I should say is produced by drumcast Productions. It's not always recorded in Toronto, but this one is. And you certainly took a little ride with me through the city. I hope you have a great evening or a great afternoon or a great morning. Thank you for listening and we hope you will listen and sleep.

Looking for a relaxing sleep podcast to help you unwind, quiet busy thoughts, or gently fall asleep? In this episode of The Insomnia Project, Marco and Nidhi settle in for a calm and curious conversation that drifts from scuba diving to classic kids’ television.
Nidhi shares her experiences learning to scuba dive, reflecting on the peaceful sensation of being underwater and the small details that come with mastering the basics. From there, the conversation gently shifts to Mathnet, the memorable educational segment from the children’s show Square One Television, sparking light and nostalgic reflections.
As always, the discussion unfolds in a relaxed, meandering style — low-stakes and soothing, designed to quiet the mind, ease anxiety, and guide you toward rest.
Whether you’re winding down before bed, relaxing during the day, or enjoying soft background listening while you work, this episode offers a tranquil escape. And if you fall asleep before it ends, that’s exactly what we hope for.
#sleeppodcast #insomniapodcast #relaxingpodcast #sleepconversation #calmpodcast #bedtimepodcast #fallasleepfast

​From Scuba to Mathnet
(Original airdate: Aug 1 , 2018)

Marco: Welcome to the Insomnia Project. Sit back, uh, relax and listen as we have a relaxing conversation with you here. I'm your host, Marco Gimpano.

Nidhi:  And I'm your co host, Nidhi Khanna. And you can always find us on Instagram. In particular, right now we seem to be posting some photos.

Marco: Actually, we need to post the photo of your spoon with the orange on the handle, so we need to take one.

Nidhi:  My bad. But you can find us at the Insomnia Project on Insta. And you can also find us on itunes as usual, and rate or review us if this is your first time listening.

Marco: And on stitcher and on iHeartRadio and on SoundCloud. And here at Pipa. If you're following us on Pipa, there's. We're in so many. We're everywhere, Niddy. And of course, we hope you listen and sleep. And first, I'm going to start by saying thank you, Nidhi, for making a wonderful tea because I, um, as you may hear, am kind of losing my voice today. And so I came over and Nidhi was just pouring the tea in a teapot and it was like music to my eyes. So, Nidhi, thank you for that.

Nidhi:  You're welcome. Welcome. We were in sync.

Marco: We were in sync. And it's a lovely tea.

Nidhi:  Oh, I thought you were gonna slurp it, like, enough. That would have been the perfect moment.

Marco: I know, but it's hot.

Marco: I did what?

Marco: My throat is sore enough. I don't need to.

Marco: I was on stage last night and I was doing a scene where I was in a tent, and in that tent, Nitty I decided to scream. Uh, and that's not good. When you haven't warmed up your voice.

Nidhi:  No.

Marco: And scream loud and for a long time.

Nidhi:  So I once had a terrible audition. Marco.

Marco: Okay.

Nidhi:  Where I had to, um, passionately give this, uh, speech and in the monologue. And, uh, I yelled the entire thing. It was very. I was very young and very inexperienced. And then afterwards I was like, I don't. I don't think I did that right.

Marco: What a great lesson.

Nidhi:  It was a great lesson.

Marco: There you go.

Nidhi:  Sometimes throat stress to hurt.

Marco: It's a good lesson.

Nidhi:  It's a good lesson.

Marco: It's your body's lesson. Telling you stop doing that.

Nidhi:  Ain't doing it right.

Marco: Speaking of lessons.

Nidhi:  Yes.

Marco: You just took your scuba lessons.

Nidhi:  I did.

Marco: Okay, I need to know everything from start to finish. Now, prior to these lessons, you had taken lessons to get to here or no. No.

Nidhi:  Okay. So prior to this, all I've ever done is snorkeling.

Marco: Ok.

Nidhi:  However, I'm going away in August to Bonaire. If I'm not miracle.

Marco: I don't know if you want that reveal.

Nidhi:  See you all in Bonaire. Um, and my friend, uh, who I'm going with, she is a big diver. She's logged in like 70 dives.

Marco: Oh, that's great.

Nidhi:  I know.

Marco: Do I know her?

Nidhi:  Do you know Lisa?

Marco: Can we get Lisa on the show?

Nidhi:  Yeah, we should.

Marco: Okay. Um, Lisa, this is an invitation.

Nidhi:  This is an invite. Lise. Uh, and so she has been into diving for a while, and every time she talks about it, she talks about it with such passion. And so when I went away on vacation in January, I actually went with her as well. And her, um, fam. And they, her and her son were divers. And so, um, they just were so passionate about it. And when I was snorkeling in the Caribbean, I was like, I want to do this. I want to see what's under the sea.

Marco: So. Great.

Nidhi:  And so, uh, I had come back in January saying, I'm going to get my scuba certification. And then life kind of happened, and I didn't really think much of it.

Marco: It's one of the first things you drop when life gets busy.

Nidhi:  It's your scuba certification. And I hadn't had any plans to go back to the Caribbean, um, at all, uh, this year. And then a few weeks ago, not

Marco: that you have anything against the Caribbean.

Nidhi:  You just. No, I just wasn't planning on taking a vacation there. And a few weeks ago, I was talking to Lisa and we were both like, we just need to get away and talk turned into, should we just go back down to the Dutch Caribbean? And uh, this time we decided to go to Bonaire. Last time we were in Caribbean, which

Marco: is awesome because you don't hear a lot of people going to Bonaire.

Nidhi:  No, no, it's fantastic. Uh, and you don't hear a lot of people going to sort of that part of the Caribbean, uh, other than Aruba. You hear people going to Aruba.

Marco: Is Curacao part of that? Because I've heard Curacao.

Nidhi:  Yes, abc.

Marco: Yeah, but it's a lot less. Of the three, Bonaire is the last

Nidhi:  one I ever hear anybody say no, because it's tiny. It can take you like 45 minutes to get from like one end to the other. That type of thing. Like an hour. Um, but the diving is supposed to be amazing. And so she said, why don't we go there? And I said great, I should get my certification.

Marco: Yeah, of course.

Nidhi:  And so a couple of weeks ago I did the, um. Sorry, that's just Xena.

Marco: Let's just start. Xena squeak toy. In case you're wondering what's going on.

Nidhi:  In case you need to.

Marco: And I knew when I threw the squeak toy when I first came in, I'm like, this is a mistake. But she's so cute. I just had like, you just, you just, just have to.

Nidhi:  I know. She gets so excited when Marco's here.

Marco: Anyways, we'll get off the detour and

Nidhi:  back to the scuba. Sorry about that. I digress. Um, and so the. So I, I tried to look on Groupon because that's, you know, a lot of the times you'll get these scuba courses, etc. And I actually found one, uh, that was pretty, uh, good, called Aquarius Scuba.

Marco: Oh, I know that I drive past

Nidhi:  it's undone and so, so, uh, and they look professional.

Marco: Like they look. Everything about it looks really top. Not that there's shady Scuba scoop.

Nidhi:  I bet you there are scuba.

Marco: Maybe there is, maybe there is. But they're.

Nidhi:  But this one was great. And so it's uh, a two day course. Uh, so the first part, the two days that you do, um, the mornings are theory. And then the afternoons you go in pool and practice certain skills which I will get to Marco. And then you have to do four open water dives in order to get your full certification. So I'm going to be doing the four open water dives in Bonaire in the ocean.

Marco: That's so amazing.

Nidhi:  So it's what we call a referral course. So you have your paperwork and then you bring it down to you to the certification center in Bonaire, and you

Marco: get certified and it'll be recognized by the certification center in Bonaire. Discourse.

Nidhi:  Yeah. So this is all like, Padi is the diving, uh, international diving.

Marco: I don't even paddi, if I'm not mistaken, 1D. Padi.

Nidhi:  Yes, for our listeners. Exactly. And so, uh, it's all padi courses. Yeah, it's all standardized. And so the morning, um, like, wow, it was like nine to five each day of theory. Theory in the morning and then pool in the afternoon.

Marco: Okay, so let me ask you about theory.

Nidhi:  Okay.

Marco: What was, what was the one thing that you learned that you're like, wow, I didn't know that.

Nidhi:  Oh, what was the one thing that

Marco: stood out for you? Or a couple of things that you're like, this is awesome. This is interesting. This is like what resonated with you.

Nidhi:  So it's quite intense, the theory. So first they give you a book and like, videos, and you have to watch them. You have to do a bunch of pre work. If you don't. So anyone who's considering doing this, do the pre work. Do the pre work. Because the pace at which they go in the actual classroom, you're not going to understand much if you haven't done the pre work.

Marco: Isn't that incredible?

Nidhi:  Yeah. And it's not that it's difficult content, it's just that, like, you need to wrap your head around barometric bars and equalization and some of the terminology of diving. And like, what's a BCD and all the equipment and a regulator, et cetera. And so if you're not. If you're only going to be exposed to that for the first time in the actual classroom setting, it becomes a little bit, um, intense.

Marco: So that leads me to my question. Did you do the pre work?

Nidhi:  I did. I did the pre work the first three chapters. And then after the first day, I was like, I better do chapter four and five, which were the easier chapters? Um, but watching the videos was helpful. So the. So basically the work really takes you, uh, into the theory of diving about like, you know, pressure on the body. And essentially it's this. It's like as you go down, your, uh, the water pressure increases and so your, like, cells get more compressed and your density increases. Um, and so you have to constantly be aware, like, you need to do what's called equalization to make sure you don't burst eardrums, et cetera, et cetera. Uh, and then, you know, the idea of buoyancy and some really, uh, technical terms that you will probably remember from like grade nine science just applied in a different way in a more tangible way. And so it actually makes sense. Right. Um, and then there's a lot of like, uh, um, multiple choice tests and stuff that you need to do.

Marco: It sounds very thorough. Like they don't. They don't.

Nidhi:  Yeah, they don't mess. Because, I mean, it's sort of like anything that has potential risk. And so, um, you know, you have to always be with a buddy. You need to be very respectful for the. To the wildlife.

Marco: Oh, that's great.

Nidhi:  Yeah, there's. There's certain things, things that you need to, as a, as a conscious diver know. Right. And, and it. I'm excited. I'm terrified, but I'm excited.

Marco: For example, what's one thing you have to be conscious of with regards to wildlife?

Nidhi:  Well, I mean, just don't. Some people, Marco, are stupid, I have to say. And it's like, let me touch the turtle or let me touch this, like, random thing that might end up being a jellyfish. Or like just, just don't touch things. It's like you're in their home.

Marco: It's like shopping.

Nidhi:  Can I go into your home and touch your medicine cabinet?

Marco: No, you shouldn't. No, you shouldn't. And if you're at my house, don't touch my turtle either.

Nidhi:  No, exactly.

Marco: No, but, like, it's shopping rules. Do not touch. Uh, no, I guess I'm. Unless you're ready to buy. No, forget that. But don't touch stuff. Just don't touch stuff. Just don't.

Nidhi:  Yeah, exactly.

Marco: I once touched a sea urchin by mistake and its spine broke in my finger and it was painful. Niddy.

Nidhi:  Yeah.

Marco: For a while. So don't touch the sea urchin either.

Nidhi:  Your guests in the water.

Marco: Guests in the water. I love it. Be respectful.

Nidhi:  Be respectful.

Marco: Enjoy. Touch with your eyes. Like observe.

Nidhi:  Yes.

Marco: And enjoy.

Nidhi:  And so what was really interesting to me is actually how almost meditative it is because once you're at a certain depth and you're kind of like, you know, gliding around. Cause you've got the flippers.

Marco: So now we're in the water.

Nidhi:  Now we're. Yes. Okay. Yeah.

Marco: Which is great.

Nidhi:  I, um, mean, it's a little bit different because in a pool you can only go so deep, but you can learn certain technical aspects. So I'm really looking forward to actually seeing wildlife and fishes and sea creatures.

Marco: Um, but you were saying it's meditative because.

Nidhi:  Yeah, because you're really slow. Right. You're just kind of gliding through water. So think about it. How many times in your life are you actually immersed completely in water? Uh, you're not.

Marco: No, you're not. I mean, you can, you can sort of dive in for a few seconds and pop back out, or you can swim underwater, but you can only. It's not a relaxing. Right.

Nidhi:  And because you can breathe through the regulator, it's like you're, you're. And you need to breathe very deeply and slowly in order to. Well, because people can panic underwater, it can become, um. But you need to kind of remain level headed. So some of the things that we had to learn how to do, for example, underwater, Michael. Um, is we had to, for example, learn how to. If your regulator stops working, how to use someone else's.

Marco: Yes, of course. Like the buddy system or something.

Nidhi:  The buddy system, exactly. And then how you can both, like if I'm attached to your secondary regulator, how we both come up to the surface.

Marco: Oh, yes, of course. Yeah.

Nidhi:  Um, at one point they, uh, actually turn off your air underwater to show you what the, um, gauge looks like. Yes. And you have literally two breaths before the gauge runs out. Right. So and then they turn it back on. You have to take off your entire, uh, vest with all your things underwater and put it back on. You have to clear your mask. So if your mask gets full of water, they, they show you how to do that. Or if your mask comes out underwater, out underwater, they show you how to clear it so that the water comes out of the actual mask.

Marco: Even underwater, you can do, uh, that. Oh, that's fascinating.

Nidhi:  I know.

Marco: Did your yoga practice help with the breathing underwater when you say deep breath?

Nidhi:  Yeah, it does, it does. Or just to get in that state of don't, uh, panic, breathe. I think part of that is also maybe actor training.

Marco: Okay.

Nidhi:  Um, like your first response can't be like, oh, my God. Right. Um, but I think that's true. So, yeah, so I'm really looking for. So it's really what I'm interested in about is so some of the skills they practice in the pool, you need to practice, um, underwater in the ocean again. And so like, the clearing of the mask is easier in the pool because it's like normal chlorine water.

Nidhi:  Right, of course.

Nidhi:  But if it's salt water.

Marco: Well, of course.

Nidhi:  Because in order to clear it, you have to actually like exhale through your nose and clear it a bit.

Marco: Oh, I see. Okay.

Nidhi:  And so that's what brings a lot water out. But if it's salt water I'm like, oh, get salt in my nose.

Marco: Yeah. I, uh, guess so.

Nidhi:  Things like that will be interesting.

Marco: Wow.

Nidhi:  And then. Yeah. So I'm looking forward to, to, to. Yeah, to experiencing also, like just, you know, because essentially through with air, you're going up and down. Right. And so, uh, just to feel weightless.

Marco: Yeah.

Nidhi:  Underwater is going to be an interesting sensation.

Marco: It's kind of like some people have weightless dreams or like floating dreams. It really can bring you to the most relaxed state you can be in.

Nidhi:  Right. Yeah. Yeah, hopefully.

Marco: Like our podcast.

Nidhi:  Ah, exactly.

Marco: Knock knock.

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Nidhi:  You call that a knock knock joke?

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Nidhi:  Okay. It's just, uh, that when people say knock knock, there's usually a joke to go with it.

Nidhi:  Like I said, this isn't a joke.

Nidhi:  So the knock knock was just you knocking?

Nidhi:  Yeah, that's how doors work.

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Marco: I want to ask you this, did they tell you you should eat a lot of lemons and limes so you don't get scurvy?

Marco: That's one of the things.

Marco: You don't want to have scurvy when

Marco: you're, when you're scuba diving.

Nidhi:  Because I'm going on a long journey, I'm m not actually taking a boat to the Caribbean.

Marco: Listen, whenever you're doing water things, things,

Marco: whether it be on a boat or not, I always say a little tequila, a little lemon, a little lime is gonna certainly help you.

Nidhi:  This is true.

Marco: So, okay, so you've done everything that you can do up until this point and now you have four open water dives that you're gonna do in Bonaire.

Nidhi:  Yes. And can I just say, the weekend that I took the course was the same weekend that those divers are rescuing everyone in.

Marco: Right. So it must have been very interesting for you.

Nidhi:  It was fascinating. It was fascinating because it's like all of a sudden I'm learning this and then I would go home and uh, learn about all the complexities of that dive or like that situation. And I actually understood it in a different way. So yeah, that's fascinating.

Marco: Like I was thinking about that. I'm m. Like, she's learning things that she can probably. You can watch CNN and be like, I know exactly what they're talking about right now. In real time. In real learning, learning time anyways.

Nidhi:  Exactly.

Marco: Wow. Um, Nitty. Um, so my, here's, here's something interesting. So you did that this weekend? Yes, I went to Christian island this weekend.

Nidhi:  Okay.

Marco: So Christian island, have you heard of it?

Nidhi:  No.

Marco: So Christian island is an island in Georgian Bay that is just north of La Fontaine. I may have mentioned La Fontaine. So my cottage is on Georgian Bay. La Fontaine is on Georgian Bay. La Fontaine is a French community.

Nidhi:  Mhm.

Marco: In the township of Tiny.

Nidhi:  Okay.

Marco: And it's been French since the settlers were there. So it's, it has a very pure old French, I've been told. And they have this festival, it's called the Festival de Loup. It's a wolf festival based on a myth of, uh, wolf eating children in the town.

Nidhi:  Um, I love it already.

Marco: I know.

Marco: I'm sure it's. Listeners are like trying to relax and

Marco: I'm talking about that. But it's like this, it happened, the myth happened in the 1800s. So they celebrate the banishment of the wolf in this town. And this town is about 20 minutes from my cottage. And then Christian island is about 30 minutes away from that town. So I Said to Amanda, let's go to the festival of the Louvre, and then let's go to Christian Island. So you. You. You hop on a boat and you go to Christian island. And it's a, um, first nations island. M. So you're allowed to be on it. There's, um, there's cottages you can. You can own, but you cannot rent. So they'll allow you. Let's sort of lease the cottage.

Nidhi:  Okay.

Marco: And there's some beautiful beaches there. And so we decided just to kind of go and see the island and explore and see the beaches. There's a beautiful lighthouse. It's really wonderful. Niddi. It's really, really wonderful.

Nidhi:  Sounds great.

Marco: You know, there's everyone that I encountered. I helped launch a boat.

Nidhi:  Nitty. You launch a boat?

Marco: Well, you, you know, you launch a boat in the water. So I happened to be walking on the beach and I was like, hey, can I help you launch the boat? And they're like, if you don't mind. And so we got in the water and pushed it. It was a lot of fun. Okay. The reason I bring up Christian island is not to tell you about my

Marco: lovely weekend jaunt on this beautiful island.

Nidhi:  I'm. I like that.

Marco: But they have seven wrecks in that area, and so there's a lot of scuba diving that's happening there. And so when we got on the boat, so. Or, sorry, the ferry to get to the island, I noticed that there was a little inlet where there was a lot of scuba divers. And I thought of you. And because it's fresh water and not salt water, the boats are still intact and very, very much intact. So I know a lot of people love to, um, to dive in fresh water. So I just wanted to bring that to your attention if you ever want to do wreck diving with your friend. It's not that far from my cottage, so.

Nidhi:  Amazing.

Marco: Bring your gear.

Nidhi:  Could do that.

Marco: Yeah.

Nidhi:  It's very exciting.

Marco: Yeah. Sorry about my voice. I had a friend who, anytime I was doing a show with him, every time I had this kind of a voice, he was like, you sound like Brenda Vaccaro. So this is my Brenda Vaccar.

Nidhi:  Brenda Vaccaro.

Marco: She's this actress from the 70s and 80s who has a deep voice. Um, I think she played Tony's cousin on who's the Boss? And she played, you know who she played. I don't know if you'll know this, but she played the woman who was married to Sophia's son on the Golden Girls. That's Brenda Riccaro. She's done a lot. I think she was even in Saturday Night Fever. Um, if you saw her, you'd be like, oh yeah, she's been on everything. She's always like a guest performer on the Love Boat or CSI or Law and Order. You'll. She'll pop up doing things like that.

Nidhi:  Right.

Marco: But, um, she has a very husky voice, let's say.

Nidhi:  Cool.

Nidhi:  Oh yeah, Midnight Cowboy. Okay.

Marco: Yeah. So you've seen her. You know who she is. If you were to see her, you'd be like, yeah, yeah, that woman that.

Nidhi:  Her, her. Have you, um, watched any Golden Girls lately?

Marco: I haven't actually.

Nidhi:  Yeah. It doesn't like come on syndication.

Marco: No, I. At least not where we are because they, they could be syndicated anywhere. So listeners might be like, it's on every day at 4 o'. Clock. What are you talking about? But, um, as many people know, I, I often will use the Golden Girls as a tool to help me fall asleep. Now I'm using Bob's Burgers.

Nidhi:  Oh, really?

Marco: Yeah, Bob's Burgers does it for me.

Nidhi:  Interesting.

Marco: Uh, I find it very relaxing. So, yeah, that's. And um, what's the other show? There's a planet Earth or the blue planet. Yeah, I think it's, um. What's the, what's the voiceover person's name?

Nidhi:  Oh, Attenborough.

Marco: Attenborough. Thank you. His voice is, is very calming for me.

Nidhi:  Yes.

Nidhi:  Actually I should watch the planet Earth

Marco: and I like a lot of the BBC sort of escape to the continent.

Nidhi:  There's some show like that where I always like the 90 minute mystery shows because it's 90 minutes and there's no interruptions and like.

Marco: But don't you want to get to the end of that? That's why I would have a problem with that because I would stay away wanting to get to the end of

Nidhi:  the mystery because they're so conventional. Like you can always go back.

Marco: You're a mystery enthusiast.

Nidhi:  Yes.

Marco: So you can probably see plot, you know, devices and figure things out right away.

Nidhi:  Right.

Marco: Because you've read so much.

Nidhi:  Sure. I mean, yes. For things like Father Brown or you know, like the old Midsummer Murders or something like that. There's usually. But I just like it because it's so long. So you don't have to like I can fall asleep. The voices are still going.

Marco: Sure.

Marco: You know, it's funny. So my 3 year old nephew likes to watch Paw Patrol.

Nidhi:  Oh, of course.

Marco: So Paw Patrol, for those who may not be familiar with it, there's about four or five dogs. One of the lead dog is Chase, and my nephew loves Chase. And then there's, um, Rumble and Marshall. Marshall.

Nidhi:  What do they do? What do each one of them do? Like, what's their thing?

Marco: Marshall's of like a firefighter. He's like a Dalmatian, so he wears the fire hat.

Nidhi:  Amazing.

Marco: Rumble is like a bulldog, so he wears a construction hat.

Marco: It's like the Village People, but they're dogs.

Marco: And each one, they have their specialties, right? And they, and they, they figure out problems. And this theme song is Chase is on the case.

Marco: Part of it is Chase, Kids. So that's my nephew's favorite show.

Marco: I lately have been getting into this show called Scorpion, which is cancelled and has four seasons. Okay. And my wife says to me, she goes, you and your nephew watch the

Marco: same shows because they're just. Cuz Scorpion is like a group of five people who are geniuses who solve problems, right? So she's like, you and your nephew like the same show. He's three and you're much older and you watch the same show.

Nidhi:  Look at the dog. The flying.

Marco: Yeah, that's, that's Sky, I think is her name. And she. And she can fly a plane.

Marco: And there's more.

Marco: And I can't. And I apologize because I can't remember all their names. Nitty. But certainly Chase is my nephew's favorite.

Nidhi:  Chase, of course. The name is Chase too. Like everything about it.

Marco: Yeah.

Nidhi:  Uh, yeah, the only. I remember when I was visiting, um, my friends in the uk, they both, uh, separately have children who are the same age, essentially. And Peppa Pig.

Marco: Yeah, Peppa Pig is huge.

Nidhi:  Was huge.

Marco: M. I love muddy, um, puddles. Do you know that?

Nidhi:  No.

Marco: So one of the pigs. This is.

Marco: Anybody. Anybody who's listening right now, like, you guys are getting this all wrong.

Nidhi:  So they're like, clearly these two have no children.

Marco: Peppa likes to put on her rain boots. Oh, I hope it's a her, because I'm really gonna get in trouble. Peppa the pig, regardless of gender, likes to put on their rain boots and jump in muddy puddles.

Nidhi:  Amazing.

Marco: And I think Peppa has a younger brother named George. I. I went to see Peppa Pig live with my niece and nephew, so I should.

Nidhi:  Marco, how are you not taking notes?

Marco: Not only that, Nidhi, I have friends who are on.

Marco: Involved in the. Of course in the show, so you would think I would pay more attention.

Marco: And then we had a meet and greet with Peppa and the friends.

Nidhi:  You're such a rock star. The rock star Uncle.

Marco: It's true.

Marco: Um, I love the Aquanauts.

Nidhi:  The.

Marco: I wish when I was a kid, because you know me, I love undersea life. I know. I love fish. I love. I know so much about it. We could have a show where you just ask me about different fish and I'll give you information. I used to watch Jacques Cousteau. I used anything that was under the sea. Oceans alive. I watched it all. So the Aquanauts are these. One's a cat. One's a. One's a. Something like a cat. I don't remember. One's a dog. I think they're all in, like, a submarine. And they.

Nidhi:  They go.

Marco: And they'll go under underwater, and they'll have adventures, and then they'll feature an underwater animal, and they'll tell the kids who are watching about a sea cucumber, a giant squid and whatnot, and all these things. When I was a kid, I would have loved. And unfortunately, it wasn't around when I was a kid. So my favorite cartoon was Jabber Jaw because it took place underwater.

Nidhi:  Oh, amazing.

Marco: And if, uh, you're not familiar with Jabberjaw, it was a Hanna Barbera cartoon. So, like, Scooby Doo that didn't have much success that followed around a shark and the shark's friends as they got into adventures.

Nidhi:  Although the Aquanauts was a TV show in the 1960s.

Marco: No, but this is not the Aquanauts. I'm talking about this.

Nidhi:  No, these are two guys who are, like, diving around.

Marco: No, I wish I would have seen that. I didn't even see that. Not that I was around in the 60s, but.

Nidhi:  Although, in an episode, an upcoming M episode, we should talk about your experience. The Hot Squad.

Marco: Oh, yeah, that's right. That was a kids show that I got to be on it. Yeah, I was, um. Double date. Double.

Nidhi:  I like that one because, like, it, again, had the mystery element to it. I loved growing up. Math Net. Ah, drag. Yeah, Math Net.

Marco: Math Net.

Nidhi:  Um, which used to be on this show. It was like, um. Oh, my God, what was the name of the show? And they used to have these, like, different vignettes during the half hour. And one of the, like, main ones was MathNet. And they would try and solve these math problems, and it was like, these two private eyes who were.

Marco: And that's what got you into mystery novels.

Nidhi:  And that got me into mystery.

Marco: And that got us to the end of our show. Niddy.

Nidhi:  I know. Look at that.

Marco: How time flies.

Nidhi:  From Scuba to mathnet.

Marco: Well, we hope you enjoyed this episode of the Insomnia project. As always, it's produced by drumcast Productions and this episode was recorded in Toronto.

Nidhi:  And as always, we hope that you listen and sleep.

Looking for a relaxing sleep podcast to help you unwind, quiet busy thoughts, or gently fall asleep? In this episode of The Insomnia Project, Marco welcomes special guest Melissa D'Agostino for a calm and thoughtful conversation about the craft of directing.
Together, they explore what it means to direct across different mediums, from stage to film to digital projects, reflecting on the unique challenges and creative opportunities each format brings. From guiding performances to shaping stories behind the scenes, the conversation highlights the quiet, intentional work that directors do to bring ideas to life.
Even with a creative topic at its core, the discussion unfolds in a gentle, meandering style — low-stakes and soothing, designed to ease your mind and help you drift toward rest.
Whether you’re settling in for bedtime, relaxing during the day, or enjoying calm background audio while you work, this episode offers a peaceful listening experience. And if you fall asleep before it ends, that’s exactly what we hope for.
#sleeppodcast #insomniapodcast #relaxingpodcast #sleepconversation #calmpodcast #bedtimepodcast #fallasleepfast

​Directing
(Original airdate: Aug 8, 2018)
Welcome to the Insomnia Project. Sit back, relax and listen as we have a conversation that will hopefully be mundane or ordinary for you. But I know some people often will find our episodes interesting. So at the very least, I hope this episode helps you relax. We're going to try to make our conversation go in a way that's perhaps less. Less than fascinating for you. But feel free to just drift off or to listen. We hope you will listen and sleep. I'm your host, Marco Timpano, and sitting across from me is a dear, dear friend, Melissa d'. Agostino. Welcome back to the Insomnia Project.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Thank you, Marco. Nice to be back.

Marco Timpano: And we were just talking about commonalities we have and things we like and we don't like. And I almost wish people could hear the conversation that we have prior to recording, uh, because it's often very animated.

Melissa D'Agostino:  It is very animated. It probably isn't the right tone for this podcast.

Marco Timpano: Yeah, uh, maybe not. That might be the antithesis to what we're trying to achieve here.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Right.

Marco Timpano: But I wanted to talk to you about. So I know you when I first met you, as a performer, um, an instructor, a producer, and. And as I've gotten to know you through the years, you've become a director that I respect so highly. So I Said, let's do an episode where we talk about directing. And I would like to know your approach to directing film or theater, however you want to take it. But you have a project in front of you that you want to direct. What's your next step?

Melissa D'Agostino:  Well, first of all, thank you for saying all of that. It's very, very kind. M. Well, I'll say this. Most of the projects I work on, uh, I start with the project before there's even a script a lot of the time. So I've directed a few things that come from someone else's script. Um, a couple of short films and, um, a couple of plays that were written. And I just came on board at that stage. So. So if I'm working with something that someone else wrote, then the next step is to go through the script and see if there's any changes that we think should be made. So if it's in theater, it's talking through if there are any, um, script changes to make or once we start to understand what the show's going to look like, um, and sound like, if there are any things that need to shift because of that. And I guess it's similar in film too. I mean, I don't see them as all that different. The, the elements are different, so the design elements work differently.

Marco Timpano: Sure.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Um, and how you set up the narrative is different, but really it's all storytelling. So I just look at it from the standpoint of the characters and the story and what I think is going to facilitate that story coming to life in the best way. If I'm working on something where I'm also the writer, then I start writing already, imagining what it looks like and imagining how it will cut together.

Marco Timpano: Right.

Melissa D'Agostino:  In terms of film. So for me, my background in editing and story editing, uh, is really helpful because I'm able to see what it's going to look like in my mind as the finished product and sort of work backward, uh, to start setting up that foundation.

Marco Timpano: What about your background as a performer? So you mentioned your background as editor and a story, um, editor and writer. What about your background as a performer? How does that influence or modify your direct directing style?

Melissa D'Agostino:  Certainly when it comes to working with actors, I think, because I've had a lot of experience being an actor and I know the things that I like and need a director to bring to the table. I try to bring those things to the table. I think also there's something about being an actor where you learn how to. You get into other people's skin, you know, and you, you get into other people's and other characters, ideas and intentions. And I think it's good to know how to talk to different actors to get things out of them. So some actors want a very hands on director. Right. Some actors need a lot of space. And so I think certainly I've learned how to listen to actors so that I can help them along the way. I think also I like to have a lot of fun as a performer. So I try to write and direct things where people can have a good time.

Marco Timpano: Sure, yeah, sure. And I think that comes across in the work that I've seen you direct, both on stage and on. I don't want to say film because it's really no longer film as we know it, but on, um, digital and recorded filmish.

Melissa D'Agostino:  I don't know, it's not video. I think film's okay, film's okay.

Marco Timpano: Film just becomes. It encompasses it all, I think.

>> Nidhi Khanna: So now.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Yeah.

Marco Timpano: So then I want you to define this because people hear this all the time and I think people who aren't in the industry will hear this and we sort of have a definition of it. But I'd like to hear what your definition of an actor's director is. So you know, they say, oh, that person's an actor. Actors, director, right.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Well, I would say, and certainly in film or recorded media, if we want to call it that a lot of directors are, uh, come from photography or come from sort of are focused on the aesthetic of film. So they're very particular about what's in the frame. They come from more of a cinematography background or they, they used to, you know, make their own films with their own cameras and they're more, they're more focused, focused, I'll say, on the visual aspects. And they're not really invested so much in the performance. So they kind of leave the actor alone or they actually use the actor as a prop. I think it was, um, Alfred Hitchcock has a quote about, you know, actors being sort of cattle or something. You know, there's a lot of old school directors that we still revere. And you know, let to be honest, I mean, Alfred, like Hitchcock, was an amazing director.

Marco Timpano: There's no doubt. Whatever you can feel about the person, his work is just outstanding.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Oh yes, like some of the best films. Um, so. But you know, he, that's how he looked at actors. He looked at them as props, um, as just another element in the frame that he could move around and sort of manipulate. Um, and so I think for me, an actor's director is someone who considers the actor an integral part of the storytelling. And like the. Who doesn't? I don't think that the power balance, uh, in filmmaking is useful. I think like the director has to be the person at the end of the day who makes the decision on set and has the final say.

Marco Timpano: Sure.

Melissa D'Agostino:  So that the production can move on. And the director is sort of the manager of a large corporation and is like m moving all the pieces around and making sure things happen the way they need to. But ultimately everyone on um, that set is contributing to that moment. And I think, I think an actor's director values an actor and an actor's process and looks to an actor to bring something that they could have never thought of to the moment, to the scene, to the film. And I think some directors aren't like that. And some directors don't even really direct performance at all. Right. Which for me as an actor I don't like because I'm quite insecure as an actor in the sense that I, I want to make sure that I'm delivering. Especially on film, when you don't know what it's going to look like.

Marco Timpano: Sure.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Like on stage you have the audience there to give you feedback and you have other actors you're acting with and you all are sort of part of this moment together.

>> Nidhi Khanna: Right.

Melissa D'Agostino:  But on film, like you have no idea until you see it cut together. So actors are very vulnerable in those moments and so are directors. But I think if you lean on each other and you work together, it's better than, you know, living in your own separate bubbles and leaving the actor to sort of be nervous and flounder. Now some directors like that because they feel like they can manipulate actors that way. So there's a lot of directors who play sort of games with their actors to try and get them into a certain state of mind or um, get them to feel stressed out so, so that they can get a certain kind of performance out of them. And I don't know.

Marco Timpano: I want to clarify something. When I said that it wasn't film, I didn't want to suggest that you're not a filmmaker. I was just trying to define, I was trying to define that it's no longer on celluloid. You don't really see that. But you're a multi talented creator who works in film, digital, tv, stage, live media. So I just want to state. And I'm sure there's ones I'm missing in here as well. No, it's more for me because then I have to go back and edit the Stupidity that I just said because I wasn't clear. So I figured I'd just. I just kind of edited the moment with my voice.

Melissa D'Agostino:  That's good.

Marco Timpano: Now, you did mention off the top, one of the first things you do when you receive a project that you want to go forward with is the look and the sound. What is your look and your sound? Uh, when it comes to creating, uh, when it comes to directing?

Melissa D'Agostino:  That's a great question.

Marco Timpano: I know it's a tough question. I don't even know how it came to me, but I'm like, this sounds like a good question I'm about to

Melissa D'Agostino:  ask, you know, can I be honest and say that I think I'm still, um. I don't have enough of an oeuvre, if you will, uh, that I could say I have, like, a particular aesthetic yet.

Marco Timpano: Oh, and I would disagree. I would see your films, and there's this. There's this brightness in shades of darkness too, that really sort of, uh, dovetail together in a way that creates a piece that sticks with you.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Oh, cool.

Marco Timpano: So I'm gonna say that.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Wow. Thank you.

Marco Timpano: I hope it's okay. You would probably listen back and you'd be like, what is he saying? No, no, that's great. That's what. That's what I see. And maybe it was an unfair question because it's easier for the person who views your work.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Maybe. I don't know. I can tell you what my. What I like.

>> Karim: Okay.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Yeah. I think, like, for me, I like things I do, like, uh, saturated. I like saturation. Okay. So I like, like, you know, deep colors and, uh. I like a, um, lot of depth and contrast. Like, I don't. I'm not a. I don't love it when things are sort of, um, desaturated unless it's a really specific choice I'm making. Um, I like richness. I also love, um. I love movement. So I come from physical theater, dance. My major influences growing up were, you know, MGM musicals, television sitcoms, uh, variety shows, and, like, sctv. So for me, um, I like to shoot a lot in wide shots and medium shots. I reserve close ups for really specific emotional moments because I think the comedy of the body and seeing the body in its full as much of the time as possible, seeing the movement of the actor is so important because so much of the work I do has to do with physical comedy or with body language or with. With characters. And I think characters happen from the. You know, from the ground up. They don't just happen on the face and so, uh, I will say I favor wider shots and medium shots than close ups. Um, you know, Fred Astaire, in a legendary way, was adamant about advocating for wider shots in MGM musicals and RKO pictures because at the time, directors like Busby Berkley were mostly concerned with the shapes in the frame. So you'll see a lot of overhead shots in early musicals and, like, big chorus lines and where, again, where the dancer is really just creating a shape as part of a larger whole. And Fred Astaire was like, no, dancers have skill and craft and grace, and we have to see their whole body. And so he fought really hard for wide shots. Um, and so a lot of the MGM musicals you see with him or Gene Kelly, that's why you're seeing wider shots, because they want to see the actor and the dancer through the space. Um, which I think is a holdover from vaudeville and proscenium theater. So those are a lot of my influences. So I'd say in terms of camera, I like. I like a wider shot.

>> Karim: Okay.

Marco Timpano: I have two questions that come to mind. If you could follow a theatrical actor around with a camera and just see what they. Their processes before they get on stage. Once they get on stage and once they get off stage and record it almost as a documentary, who would that person be? And it can be any form of theater. And it could be. It doesn't have to necessarily be someone famous. But I'm just curious, who would you like to follow around with the camera?

Melissa D'Agostino:  Does that person have to be alive?

Marco Timpano: Absolutely.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Can they be dead?

Marco Timpano: Of course.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Um. Uh. Oh, man, there's so many. I mean, first of all, one of my major influences, or a few of my major influences are, um. Um. From the silent film era. So I feel like, you know, Charlie Chaplin or Mary Pickford or, um, Buster Keaton. I feel like any of those people would have been a fascinating thing. Like, I think Charlie Chaplin in the vaudeville days would have been amazing. Similarly, one of my major influences growing up was Bea Arthur.

Marco Timpano: Okay.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Because I loved the Golden Girls. But also Bea Arthur was a star, uh, on Broadway as well. She was in Mame with Angela Lansbury.

Marco Timpano: That's right before.

>> Nidhi Khanna: Ah.

Marco Timpano: They made the film adaptation of it that starred Lucille Ball, if I'm not mistaken. M. As.

Melissa D'Agostino:  As I think it is. Yeah. Um. Is it Lucille Ball? Oh, my goodness. That's. I feel bad that I don't remember that. I never watched it because. Because I knew that it was such a debacle making that film. Anyway, it was. There's a lot of there's actually a great story where Estelle Getty, uh, who played Sophia on the Golden Girls, which

Marco Timpano: would be Arthur's mother. Character of her mom.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Yeah. Went in the first day. And so Estelle Getty was really starstruck because she came into her career quite late in life. She was, you know, a mother, Jewish mother in Brooklyn, and then decided she wanted to try and be an actor. And she had starred in the, uh, Torch Song trilogy on Broadway and had.

Marco Timpano: With Harvey.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Harvey Feinstein.

Marco Timpano: He wrote that.

Melissa D'Agostino:  He did, yeah. So she. That was her breakout role on Broadway, and that's how she became involved in the Golden Girls. And so on the first day that they were on set, she went into Bea Arthur's dressing room, and she said, oh, my goodness. I had just watched Mame on Bame was on TV on the weekend, and Bea Arthur was like, oh, I don't want to talk about that. Just, like, just. Was like, please don't. Oh, my God. That movie, like, just dismissed it. And it's so funny to think of their. Their dynamic on the show and how that was very different in real life because Bea Arthur didn't really want to do that show.

Marco Timpano: Right.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Uh, she was very reluctant to do the Golden.

Marco Timpano: That's right.

Melissa D'Agostino:  And. And didn't love being on the show some of the time. Um, but, yeah, I'd say, like, to. To have been around in the golden age of Broadway, to have watched, um, you know, Ethel Merman or Bea Arthur or, uh, any of these performers, to

Marco Timpano: have watched strong women that you're picking out as well.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Yeah. And to just have watched them go through their life. Shirley MacLaine, you know, in Pajama Game, where, like, her whole life changed. Like, it was such a different time. Um, and in a lot of ways, it was not a great time. Sure, for women, for people of color, for, like, in our politics, have moved on in really important way. But in terms of the kind of magic of performance and the magic of film, as you said, like the celluloid. I wish. You know, there's a big part of me that would love to go back to a time when you were, you know, slicing that film and taping it together or gluing it together and seeing it go through and seeing that little cut. There's something about the tactile nature of all of that that, um, I'd love to just actually go back there and. And see how those artists lived their daily lives and, like, worked on their craft. Would be cool.

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Marco Timpano: Who is a theatrical director that you you enjoy their work? Is there anyone who you've seen their work on on the stage where you're like, excited when you're in the audience about to see it.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Hm. There's a lot.

Marco Timpano: Okay.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Um, let me think of who might.

Marco Timpano: Let me ask you this. What are you, like when you're in the audience, either at a theatric theatrical production or in the theater m. Of a movie or piece that you're really excited to see those moments before the curtains open or the. Or the lights turn down?

Melissa D'Agostino:  I'm actually very nervous.

Marco Timpano: You are?

Melissa D'Agostino:  Oh, yeah. I'm very nervous as an audience member.

Marco Timpano: I didn't know that.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Yeah. I feel like I have a lot of.

Marco Timpano: And I've sat next to you.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Well, I mean, like, it depends, right. It's something I really care about. Ok. Like I'll give you an example. We recently, um. My partner and I recently went to the. The Tiff Lightbox in Toronto, the Bell Lightbox, which is a beautiful theater, um, run by the Toronto International Film Festival, the same company.

Marco Timpano: That's where it gets its name, Tiff.

Melissa D'Agostino:  That's right, yeah. Um, they sometimes they screen classic movies and so they were screening on the Town, which is a musical. MGM musical directed by Gene Kelly and Stanley Donen. First MGM musical to be shot on location in New York. On the Town is a musical by, uh, Comden and Green.

Marco Timpano: Is that the one with Frank Sinatra in it?

Melissa D'Agostino:  Yes.

Marco Timpano: Okay.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Yeah.

Marco Timpano: Where they're like channeling my inner VR through there.

Melissa D'Agostino:  That's right.

Marco Timpano: When they're like sailors right in there. Okay, sorry.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Yeah, they're on leave. They're on shore leave for a day. So the musical takes place in a day written by Comden and Green with music by. Some music by Leonard Bernstein. And um. And so we went to see it and they were. They screen it on the big screen and they did this with American in Paris. I've seen Singing in the Rain there, which is one of my all time favorite movies. And before the movie starts, you know, there's a kind of excitement. There's the memory of being a kid for the first time, being in a theater and watching something, you know, powerful and moving and exciting. There's the. There's also, when you're watching an older movie, the, like, what parts of this are gonna be racist and uncomfortable and I'm gonna have to like, you know, feel awkward about the fact that I like this movie. Because the truth is, you know, not everything ages well and the world has

Marco Timpano: changed a lot, 100%.

Melissa D'Agostino:  But, um, I get nervous and especially if it's. If it's a play with people. If the play I'm seeing in it, people I know are in it. I get nervous for them, and I want them to be great. And I want, you know, I take on a lot when I watch things.

>> Nidhi Khanna: Wow.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Yeah. Yeah. And then I also. I have very high standards, and I want things to be good. So I don't like to. I don't want to be disappointed, but I. So I'm a bit on edge because I. I hope so much that it's going to be great.

Marco Timpano: Okay, so let me ask you this. What would be your advice to our young audience who's listening and wants to aspire to be a director?

Melissa D'Agostino:  Uh, my advice would be to. To do it. So the great thing about the age we're in, speaking of, you know, progress, is you have a camera in your hand. If you have a smartphone, you have a camera.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Yeah.

Melissa D'Agostino:  And if you have a laptop, you have editing software. And so. Or you, you know, you can have. There's access to that. So I would say just start making movies. Um, when I was a kid, you know, it's funny, I never. I never really thought I'd become a director. I always thought I'd be a performer and a writer. But when I was a kid, when we bought. My parents bought a camcorder or they got a camcorder from, like, RBC points, you know, you get those points you can get.

Marco Timpano: So RBC points would be points for our international listeners. Yes, that you would get when you use certain platforms or products that the bank has. So whether you use, you know, your debit card to purchase things, you would get certain amounts of points which you could then convert to tangible items. Is that fair to say?

Melissa D'Agostino:  That's it? Yeah. So we got a camcorder, and, uh, I would record things all the time. And I remember making a movie for my grade nine religion class because I went to Catholic school, um, about the Old Testament and, like, editing it together. And I remember in grade 12, in grade 11, making a dance film based on poetry that I wrote. And at the time, it didn't occur to me that I was using, that I was directing film. I was just like, oh, well, I just want to put this thing together. So I would say, even back then, before we had the software and the tools we have today, I was finding a way to do that. So I would say, make things you want to make. Make them with people that you like to work with and keep. Keep honing your vision, your style of storytelling. And see, See what happens and what

Marco Timpano: happens when they encounter an obstacle.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Oh, my goodness. Well, you're going to encounter an obstacle every Five minutes.

Marco Timpano: Okay. Uh, this is, this is the key advice you're giving right now?

Melissa D'Agostino:  Oh my goodness. Well, yes. Listen though. I think like what I'm learning about life is that obstacles are gifts. Not gifts, GIFs, but gifts with a t, um, presence. Because they actually force you into making, um, decisions. And when you have to make a tough decision, I think you actually drop deep down into what really matters to you. So when an obstacle comes into your path, it's forcing you to, to, to put away all the clutter, all the everyone else's opinions, what you should do, what you think is right. And it forces you to actually tap into what's really important. It's like if you were in the forest and an animal arrived and was going to attack you, you're going to rely on your instinct because that's all you have. You don't have anything else. So I would look at obstacles as a major gift saying to you this, this is saying no, you have to choose a new path and to just go. Okay, what does my instinct tell me here? My instinct says go left. Okay, I'm going to go left. Um, and to not to not focus on it because I really have in the past, I let, I let obstacles and people's acceptance of me or non acceptance, like their opinion of me really slow me down sometimes.

Marco Timpano: Okay.

Melissa D'Agostino:  And make me feel quite bad about myself. And um, and it doesn't get you anywhere. Um, you have to feel it. You're an artist, so you can't. This idea of having thick skin I think is a blessing and a curse. Your skin can't be so thick that you don't feel things because you have to. You are there. You are the conduit for stories and characters. You have to feel things. You have to feel disappointment and you have to feel anger and you have to feel joy because you have to tell stories and that's where they come from. Um, but you're. It's not about your skin being thick. I think it's about letting it in and letting your skin kind of be porous. It comes in and then it comes out. That person doesn't want me. Cool. That person doesn't want my project. Okay. What does my instinct tell me? Go to this person, make this change. I think their obstacles really just need to be reframed.

Marco Timpano: Wow.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Yeah. That's what I'm.

Marco Timpano: So rather than let the obstacle hit you and bounce off, let it go through you and just continue on your path.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Yeah. Cuz it bouncing off means. Because you know what it's like notes. People always say about network notes, you know, that often you get really awful, stupid notes from, like, lawyers who don't know anything about filmmaking telling you about your script.

Marco Timpano: People who work in the network who aren't creators or artists.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Yes.

Marco Timpano: But they may be in a department that, uh, doesn't necessarily need to be influencing what happens on camera.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Yeah, exactly. Tell me about my tax credit. Don't tell me about my script. But that being said, you know, often in that note that makes no sense, usually there is actually something interesting.

Marco Timpano: Oh.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Even if it's. If you're not going to use it, you know, there is something in there that might be useful or that, you know it's coming from a place and that could be helpful. So if you just let the, the thing bounce off of you, if you let the criticism or the obstacle just kind of hit you and go, you might miss out on something that. Or something you can come to from that note. So sometimes the note makes no sense, but it makes you think, think of something in a new way. And maybe that's helpful or maybe it isn't. But if you don't actually let yourself, like, take it in for a second, you'll never know. And so I think it's useful to be able to do that and then to be able to make your own choice anyway, so to not let anybody else, uh, have more priority or authority over the project than you. Um, now, sometimes if that person's giving you a lot of money, you can't always do that.

Marco Timpano: Sure.

Melissa D'Agostino:  And so then you have some compromises to make. But life's full of compromises. It's just a matter of making sure you can move forward, having made those compromises and still feel good about yourself and the project as much as possible.

Marco Timpano: Well, Melissa, I want to thank you for being a guest on our show. I want to thank you for redefining the triple threat. Performer, producer and director.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Thank you.

Marco Timpano: And we look forward to seeing the success of, um, all your projects, whether they be in front of the camera, behind the camera, on stage, or in the multitude of platforms that I tried to define at the top of the show.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Well, thanks, Marco. This is really fun.

Marco Timpano: Thank you for listening to the Insomnia Project. As always. We're produced by drumcast Productions and this episode was recorded in Toronto, Canada.

Looking for a relaxing sleep podcast to help you unwind, quiet busy thoughts, or gently fall asleep? In this calming episode of The Insomnia Project, Marco and Nidhi explore the idea of everyday luxury — those small, comforting rituals that help us relax, feel cared for, and slow down at the end of a long day.
Through a soft, meandering conversation, they reflect on simple indulgences and soothing habits that bring a sense of calm, from cozy comforts to quiet moments of self-care. This low-stakes discussion is designed to ease anxiety, settle racing thoughts, and create the perfect atmosphere for sleep, rest, or peaceful background listening.
Whether you’re lying in bed trying to drift off, taking a break from a busy day, or looking for a gentle sleep podcast to accompany your evening routine, this episode offers a tranquil escape. Let the calm conversation guide you toward relaxation — and if you fall asleep before it ends, that’s exactly the point.
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