Directing | Soft Spoken Conversation for Relaxation & Sleep

Looking for a relaxing sleep podcast to help you unwind, quiet busy thoughts, or gently fall asleep? In this episode of The Insomnia Project, Marco welcomes special guest Melissa D'Agostino for a calm and thoughtful conversation about the craft of directing.
Together, they explore what it means to direct across different mediums, from stage to film to digital projects, reflecting on the unique challenges and creative opportunities each format brings. From guiding performances to shaping stories behind the scenes, the conversation highlights the quiet, intentional work that directors do to bring ideas to life.
Even with a creative topic at its core, the discussion unfolds in a gentle, meandering style — low-stakes and soothing, designed to ease your mind and help you drift toward rest.
Whether you’re settling in for bedtime, relaxing during the day, or enjoying calm background audio while you work, this episode offers a peaceful listening experience. And if you fall asleep before it ends, that’s exactly what we hope for.
#sleeppodcast #insomniapodcast #relaxingpodcast #sleepconversation #calmpodcast #bedtimepodcast #fallasleepfast

​Directing
(Original airdate: Aug 8, 2018)
Welcome to the Insomnia Project. Sit back, relax and listen as we have a conversation that will hopefully be mundane or ordinary for you. But I know some people often will find our episodes interesting. So at the very least, I hope this episode helps you relax. We're going to try to make our conversation go in a way that's perhaps less. Less than fascinating for you. But feel free to just drift off or to listen. We hope you will listen and sleep. I'm your host, Marco Timpano, and sitting across from me is a dear, dear friend, Melissa d'. Agostino. Welcome back to the Insomnia Project.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Thank you, Marco. Nice to be back.

Marco Timpano: And we were just talking about commonalities we have and things we like and we don't like. And I almost wish people could hear the conversation that we have prior to recording, uh, because it's often very animated.

Melissa D'Agostino:  It is very animated. It probably isn't the right tone for this podcast.

Marco Timpano: Yeah, uh, maybe not. That might be the antithesis to what we're trying to achieve here.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Right.

Marco Timpano: But I wanted to talk to you about. So I know you when I first met you, as a performer, um, an instructor, a producer, and. And as I've gotten to know you through the years, you've become a director that I respect so highly. So I Said, let's do an episode where we talk about directing. And I would like to know your approach to directing film or theater, however you want to take it. But you have a project in front of you that you want to direct. What's your next step?

Melissa D'Agostino:  Well, first of all, thank you for saying all of that. It's very, very kind. M. Well, I'll say this. Most of the projects I work on, uh, I start with the project before there's even a script a lot of the time. So I've directed a few things that come from someone else's script. Um, a couple of short films and, um, a couple of plays that were written. And I just came on board at that stage. So. So if I'm working with something that someone else wrote, then the next step is to go through the script and see if there's any changes that we think should be made. So if it's in theater, it's talking through if there are any, um, script changes to make or once we start to understand what the show's going to look like, um, and sound like, if there are any things that need to shift because of that. And I guess it's similar in film too. I mean, I don't see them as all that different. The, the elements are different, so the design elements work differently.

Marco Timpano: Sure.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Um, and how you set up the narrative is different, but really it's all storytelling. So I just look at it from the standpoint of the characters and the story and what I think is going to facilitate that story coming to life in the best way. If I'm working on something where I'm also the writer, then I start writing already, imagining what it looks like and imagining how it will cut together.

Marco Timpano: Right.

Melissa D'Agostino:  In terms of film. So for me, my background in editing and story editing, uh, is really helpful because I'm able to see what it's going to look like in my mind as the finished product and sort of work backward, uh, to start setting up that foundation.

Marco Timpano: What about your background as a performer? So you mentioned your background as editor and a story, um, editor and writer. What about your background as a performer? How does that influence or modify your direct directing style?

Melissa D'Agostino:  Certainly when it comes to working with actors, I think, because I've had a lot of experience being an actor and I know the things that I like and need a director to bring to the table. I try to bring those things to the table. I think also there's something about being an actor where you learn how to. You get into other people's skin, you know, and you, you get into other people's and other characters, ideas and intentions. And I think it's good to know how to talk to different actors to get things out of them. So some actors want a very hands on director. Right. Some actors need a lot of space. And so I think certainly I've learned how to listen to actors so that I can help them along the way. I think also I like to have a lot of fun as a performer. So I try to write and direct things where people can have a good time.

Marco Timpano: Sure, yeah, sure. And I think that comes across in the work that I've seen you direct, both on stage and on. I don't want to say film because it's really no longer film as we know it, but on, um, digital and recorded filmish.

Melissa D'Agostino:  I don't know, it's not video. I think film's okay, film's okay.

Marco Timpano: Film just becomes. It encompasses it all, I think.

>> Nidhi Khanna: So now.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Yeah.

Marco Timpano: So then I want you to define this because people hear this all the time and I think people who aren't in the industry will hear this and we sort of have a definition of it. But I'd like to hear what your definition of an actor's director is. So you know, they say, oh, that person's an actor. Actors, director, right.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Well, I would say, and certainly in film or recorded media, if we want to call it that a lot of directors are, uh, come from photography or come from sort of are focused on the aesthetic of film. So they're very particular about what's in the frame. They come from more of a cinematography background or they, they used to, you know, make their own films with their own cameras and they're more, they're more focused, focused, I'll say, on the visual aspects. And they're not really invested so much in the performance. So they kind of leave the actor alone or they actually use the actor as a prop. I think it was, um, Alfred Hitchcock has a quote about, you know, actors being sort of cattle or something. You know, there's a lot of old school directors that we still revere. And you know, let to be honest, I mean, Alfred, like Hitchcock, was an amazing director.

Marco Timpano: There's no doubt. Whatever you can feel about the person, his work is just outstanding.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Oh yes, like some of the best films. Um, so. But you know, he, that's how he looked at actors. He looked at them as props, um, as just another element in the frame that he could move around and sort of manipulate. Um, and so I think for me, an actor's director is someone who considers the actor an integral part of the storytelling. And like the. Who doesn't? I don't think that the power balance, uh, in filmmaking is useful. I think like the director has to be the person at the end of the day who makes the decision on set and has the final say.

Marco Timpano: Sure.

Melissa D'Agostino:  So that the production can move on. And the director is sort of the manager of a large corporation and is like m moving all the pieces around and making sure things happen the way they need to. But ultimately everyone on um, that set is contributing to that moment. And I think, I think an actor's director values an actor and an actor's process and looks to an actor to bring something that they could have never thought of to the moment, to the scene, to the film. And I think some directors aren't like that. And some directors don't even really direct performance at all. Right. Which for me as an actor I don't like because I'm quite insecure as an actor in the sense that I, I want to make sure that I'm delivering. Especially on film, when you don't know what it's going to look like.

Marco Timpano: Sure.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Like on stage you have the audience there to give you feedback and you have other actors you're acting with and you all are sort of part of this moment together.

>> Nidhi Khanna: Right.

Melissa D'Agostino:  But on film, like you have no idea until you see it cut together. So actors are very vulnerable in those moments and so are directors. But I think if you lean on each other and you work together, it's better than, you know, living in your own separate bubbles and leaving the actor to sort of be nervous and flounder. Now some directors like that because they feel like they can manipulate actors that way. So there's a lot of directors who play sort of games with their actors to try and get them into a certain state of mind or um, get them to feel stressed out so, so that they can get a certain kind of performance out of them. And I don't know.

Marco Timpano: I want to clarify something. When I said that it wasn't film, I didn't want to suggest that you're not a filmmaker. I was just trying to define, I was trying to define that it's no longer on celluloid. You don't really see that. But you're a multi talented creator who works in film, digital, tv, stage, live media. So I just want to state. And I'm sure there's ones I'm missing in here as well. No, it's more for me because then I have to go back and edit the Stupidity that I just said because I wasn't clear. So I figured I'd just. I just kind of edited the moment with my voice.

Melissa D'Agostino:  That's good.

Marco Timpano: Now, you did mention off the top, one of the first things you do when you receive a project that you want to go forward with is the look and the sound. What is your look and your sound? Uh, when it comes to creating, uh, when it comes to directing?

Melissa D'Agostino:  That's a great question.

Marco Timpano: I know it's a tough question. I don't even know how it came to me, but I'm like, this sounds like a good question I'm about to

Melissa D'Agostino:  ask, you know, can I be honest and say that I think I'm still, um. I don't have enough of an oeuvre, if you will, uh, that I could say I have, like, a particular aesthetic yet.

Marco Timpano: Oh, and I would disagree. I would see your films, and there's this. There's this brightness in shades of darkness too, that really sort of, uh, dovetail together in a way that creates a piece that sticks with you.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Oh, cool.

Marco Timpano: So I'm gonna say that.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Wow. Thank you.

Marco Timpano: I hope it's okay. You would probably listen back and you'd be like, what is he saying? No, no, that's great. That's what. That's what I see. And maybe it was an unfair question because it's easier for the person who views your work.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Maybe. I don't know. I can tell you what my. What I like.

>> Karim: Okay.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Yeah. I think, like, for me, I like things I do, like, uh, saturated. I like saturation. Okay. So I like, like, you know, deep colors and, uh. I like a, um, lot of depth and contrast. Like, I don't. I'm not a. I don't love it when things are sort of, um, desaturated unless it's a really specific choice I'm making. Um, I like richness. I also love, um. I love movement. So I come from physical theater, dance. My major influences growing up were, you know, MGM musicals, television sitcoms, uh, variety shows, and, like, sctv. So for me, um, I like to shoot a lot in wide shots and medium shots. I reserve close ups for really specific emotional moments because I think the comedy of the body and seeing the body in its full as much of the time as possible, seeing the movement of the actor is so important because so much of the work I do has to do with physical comedy or with body language or with. With characters. And I think characters happen from the. You know, from the ground up. They don't just happen on the face and so, uh, I will say I favor wider shots and medium shots than close ups. Um, you know, Fred Astaire, in a legendary way, was adamant about advocating for wider shots in MGM musicals and RKO pictures because at the time, directors like Busby Berkley were mostly concerned with the shapes in the frame. So you'll see a lot of overhead shots in early musicals and, like, big chorus lines and where, again, where the dancer is really just creating a shape as part of a larger whole. And Fred Astaire was like, no, dancers have skill and craft and grace, and we have to see their whole body. And so he fought really hard for wide shots. Um, and so a lot of the MGM musicals you see with him or Gene Kelly, that's why you're seeing wider shots, because they want to see the actor and the dancer through the space. Um, which I think is a holdover from vaudeville and proscenium theater. So those are a lot of my influences. So I'd say in terms of camera, I like. I like a wider shot.

>> Karim: Okay.

Marco Timpano: I have two questions that come to mind. If you could follow a theatrical actor around with a camera and just see what they. Their processes before they get on stage. Once they get on stage and once they get off stage and record it almost as a documentary, who would that person be? And it can be any form of theater. And it could be. It doesn't have to necessarily be someone famous. But I'm just curious, who would you like to follow around with the camera?

Melissa D'Agostino:  Does that person have to be alive?

Marco Timpano: Absolutely.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Can they be dead?

Marco Timpano: Of course.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Um. Uh. Oh, man, there's so many. I mean, first of all, one of my major influences, or a few of my major influences are, um. Um. From the silent film era. So I feel like, you know, Charlie Chaplin or Mary Pickford or, um, Buster Keaton. I feel like any of those people would have been a fascinating thing. Like, I think Charlie Chaplin in the vaudeville days would have been amazing. Similarly, one of my major influences growing up was Bea Arthur.

Marco Timpano: Okay.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Because I loved the Golden Girls. But also Bea Arthur was a star, uh, on Broadway as well. She was in Mame with Angela Lansbury.

Marco Timpano: That's right before.

>> Nidhi Khanna: Ah.

Marco Timpano: They made the film adaptation of it that starred Lucille Ball, if I'm not mistaken. M. As.

Melissa D'Agostino:  As I think it is. Yeah. Um. Is it Lucille Ball? Oh, my goodness. That's. I feel bad that I don't remember that. I never watched it because. Because I knew that it was such a debacle making that film. Anyway, it was. There's a lot of there's actually a great story where Estelle Getty, uh, who played Sophia on the Golden Girls, which

Marco Timpano: would be Arthur's mother. Character of her mom.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Yeah. Went in the first day. And so Estelle Getty was really starstruck because she came into her career quite late in life. She was, you know, a mother, Jewish mother in Brooklyn, and then decided she wanted to try and be an actor. And she had starred in the, uh, Torch Song trilogy on Broadway and had.

Marco Timpano: With Harvey.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Harvey Feinstein.

Marco Timpano: He wrote that.

Melissa D'Agostino:  He did, yeah. So she. That was her breakout role on Broadway, and that's how she became involved in the Golden Girls. And so on the first day that they were on set, she went into Bea Arthur's dressing room, and she said, oh, my goodness. I had just watched Mame on Bame was on TV on the weekend, and Bea Arthur was like, oh, I don't want to talk about that. Just, like, just. Was like, please don't. Oh, my God. That movie, like, just dismissed it. And it's so funny to think of their. Their dynamic on the show and how that was very different in real life because Bea Arthur didn't really want to do that show.

Marco Timpano: Right.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Uh, she was very reluctant to do the Golden.

Marco Timpano: That's right.

Melissa D'Agostino:  And. And didn't love being on the show some of the time. Um, but, yeah, I'd say, like, to. To have been around in the golden age of Broadway, to have watched, um, you know, Ethel Merman or Bea Arthur or, uh, any of these performers, to

Marco Timpano: have watched strong women that you're picking out as well.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Yeah. And to just have watched them go through their life. Shirley MacLaine, you know, in Pajama Game, where, like, her whole life changed. Like, it was such a different time. Um, and in a lot of ways, it was not a great time. Sure, for women, for people of color, for, like, in our politics, have moved on in really important way. But in terms of the kind of magic of performance and the magic of film, as you said, like the celluloid. I wish. You know, there's a big part of me that would love to go back to a time when you were, you know, slicing that film and taping it together or gluing it together and seeing it go through and seeing that little cut. There's something about the tactile nature of all of that that, um, I'd love to just actually go back there and. And see how those artists lived their daily lives and, like, worked on their craft. Would be cool.

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Marco Timpano: Who is a theatrical director that you you enjoy their work? Is there anyone who you've seen their work on on the stage where you're like, excited when you're in the audience about to see it.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Hm. There's a lot.

Marco Timpano: Okay.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Um, let me think of who might.

Marco Timpano: Let me ask you this. What are you, like when you're in the audience, either at a theatric theatrical production or in the theater m. Of a movie or piece that you're really excited to see those moments before the curtains open or the. Or the lights turn down?

Melissa D'Agostino:  I'm actually very nervous.

Marco Timpano: You are?

Melissa D'Agostino:  Oh, yeah. I'm very nervous as an audience member.

Marco Timpano: I didn't know that.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Yeah. I feel like I have a lot of.

Marco Timpano: And I've sat next to you.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Well, I mean, like, it depends, right. It's something I really care about. Ok. Like I'll give you an example. We recently, um. My partner and I recently went to the. The Tiff Lightbox in Toronto, the Bell Lightbox, which is a beautiful theater, um, run by the Toronto International Film Festival, the same company.

Marco Timpano: That's where it gets its name, Tiff.

Melissa D'Agostino:  That's right, yeah. Um, they sometimes they screen classic movies and so they were screening on the Town, which is a musical. MGM musical directed by Gene Kelly and Stanley Donen. First MGM musical to be shot on location in New York. On the Town is a musical by, uh, Comden and Green.

Marco Timpano: Is that the one with Frank Sinatra in it?

Melissa D'Agostino:  Yes.

Marco Timpano: Okay.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Yeah.

Marco Timpano: Where they're like channeling my inner VR through there.

Melissa D'Agostino:  That's right.

Marco Timpano: When they're like sailors right in there. Okay, sorry.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Yeah, they're on leave. They're on shore leave for a day. So the musical takes place in a day written by Comden and Green with music by. Some music by Leonard Bernstein. And um. And so we went to see it and they were. They screen it on the big screen and they did this with American in Paris. I've seen Singing in the Rain there, which is one of my all time favorite movies. And before the movie starts, you know, there's a kind of excitement. There's the memory of being a kid for the first time, being in a theater and watching something, you know, powerful and moving and exciting. There's the. There's also, when you're watching an older movie, the, like, what parts of this are gonna be racist and uncomfortable and I'm gonna have to like, you know, feel awkward about the fact that I like this movie. Because the truth is, you know, not everything ages well and the world has

Marco Timpano: changed a lot, 100%.

Melissa D'Agostino:  But, um, I get nervous and especially if it's. If it's a play with people. If the play I'm seeing in it, people I know are in it. I get nervous for them, and I want them to be great. And I want, you know, I take on a lot when I watch things.

>> Nidhi Khanna: Wow.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Yeah. Yeah. And then I also. I have very high standards, and I want things to be good. So I don't like to. I don't want to be disappointed, but I. So I'm a bit on edge because I. I hope so much that it's going to be great.

Marco Timpano: Okay, so let me ask you this. What would be your advice to our young audience who's listening and wants to aspire to be a director?

Melissa D'Agostino:  Uh, my advice would be to. To do it. So the great thing about the age we're in, speaking of, you know, progress, is you have a camera in your hand. If you have a smartphone, you have a camera.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Yeah.

Melissa D'Agostino:  And if you have a laptop, you have editing software. And so. Or you, you know, you can have. There's access to that. So I would say just start making movies. Um, when I was a kid, you know, it's funny, I never. I never really thought I'd become a director. I always thought I'd be a performer and a writer. But when I was a kid, when we bought. My parents bought a camcorder or they got a camcorder from, like, RBC points, you know, you get those points you can get.

Marco Timpano: So RBC points would be points for our international listeners. Yes, that you would get when you use certain platforms or products that the bank has. So whether you use, you know, your debit card to purchase things, you would get certain amounts of points which you could then convert to tangible items. Is that fair to say?

Melissa D'Agostino:  That's it? Yeah. So we got a camcorder, and, uh, I would record things all the time. And I remember making a movie for my grade nine religion class because I went to Catholic school, um, about the Old Testament and, like, editing it together. And I remember in grade 12, in grade 11, making a dance film based on poetry that I wrote. And at the time, it didn't occur to me that I was using, that I was directing film. I was just like, oh, well, I just want to put this thing together. So I would say, even back then, before we had the software and the tools we have today, I was finding a way to do that. So I would say, make things you want to make. Make them with people that you like to work with and keep. Keep honing your vision, your style of storytelling. And see, See what happens and what

Marco Timpano: happens when they encounter an obstacle.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Oh, my goodness. Well, you're going to encounter an obstacle every Five minutes.

Marco Timpano: Okay. Uh, this is, this is the key advice you're giving right now?

Melissa D'Agostino:  Oh my goodness. Well, yes. Listen though. I think like what I'm learning about life is that obstacles are gifts. Not gifts, GIFs, but gifts with a t, um, presence. Because they actually force you into making, um, decisions. And when you have to make a tough decision, I think you actually drop deep down into what really matters to you. So when an obstacle comes into your path, it's forcing you to, to, to put away all the clutter, all the everyone else's opinions, what you should do, what you think is right. And it forces you to actually tap into what's really important. It's like if you were in the forest and an animal arrived and was going to attack you, you're going to rely on your instinct because that's all you have. You don't have anything else. So I would look at obstacles as a major gift saying to you this, this is saying no, you have to choose a new path and to just go. Okay, what does my instinct tell me here? My instinct says go left. Okay, I'm going to go left. Um, and to not to not focus on it because I really have in the past, I let, I let obstacles and people's acceptance of me or non acceptance, like their opinion of me really slow me down sometimes.

Marco Timpano: Okay.

Melissa D'Agostino:  And make me feel quite bad about myself. And um, and it doesn't get you anywhere. Um, you have to feel it. You're an artist, so you can't. This idea of having thick skin I think is a blessing and a curse. Your skin can't be so thick that you don't feel things because you have to. You are there. You are the conduit for stories and characters. You have to feel things. You have to feel disappointment and you have to feel anger and you have to feel joy because you have to tell stories and that's where they come from. Um, but you're. It's not about your skin being thick. I think it's about letting it in and letting your skin kind of be porous. It comes in and then it comes out. That person doesn't want me. Cool. That person doesn't want my project. Okay. What does my instinct tell me? Go to this person, make this change. I think their obstacles really just need to be reframed.

Marco Timpano: Wow.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Yeah. That's what I'm.

Marco Timpano: So rather than let the obstacle hit you and bounce off, let it go through you and just continue on your path.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Yeah. Cuz it bouncing off means. Because you know what it's like notes. People always say about network notes, you know, that often you get really awful, stupid notes from, like, lawyers who don't know anything about filmmaking telling you about your script.

Marco Timpano: People who work in the network who aren't creators or artists.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Yes.

Marco Timpano: But they may be in a department that, uh, doesn't necessarily need to be influencing what happens on camera.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Yeah, exactly. Tell me about my tax credit. Don't tell me about my script. But that being said, you know, often in that note that makes no sense, usually there is actually something interesting.

Marco Timpano: Oh.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Even if it's. If you're not going to use it, you know, there is something in there that might be useful or that, you know it's coming from a place and that could be helpful. So if you just let the, the thing bounce off of you, if you let the criticism or the obstacle just kind of hit you and go, you might miss out on something that. Or something you can come to from that note. So sometimes the note makes no sense, but it makes you think, think of something in a new way. And maybe that's helpful or maybe it isn't. But if you don't actually let yourself, like, take it in for a second, you'll never know. And so I think it's useful to be able to do that and then to be able to make your own choice anyway, so to not let anybody else, uh, have more priority or authority over the project than you. Um, now, sometimes if that person's giving you a lot of money, you can't always do that.

Marco Timpano: Sure.

Melissa D'Agostino:  And so then you have some compromises to make. But life's full of compromises. It's just a matter of making sure you can move forward, having made those compromises and still feel good about yourself and the project as much as possible.

Marco Timpano: Well, Melissa, I want to thank you for being a guest on our show. I want to thank you for redefining the triple threat. Performer, producer and director.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Thank you.

Marco Timpano: And we look forward to seeing the success of, um, all your projects, whether they be in front of the camera, behind the camera, on stage, or in the multitude of platforms that I tried to define at the top of the show.

Melissa D'Agostino:  Well, thanks, Marco. This is really fun.

Marco Timpano: Thank you for listening to the Insomnia Project. As always. We're produced by drumcast Productions and this episode was recorded in Toronto, Canada.