Drummers with Daniel Barker | Relaxing Talk to Unwind and Drift Off

Looking for a relaxing sleep podcast to help you unwind, quiet busy thoughts, or gently fall asleep? In this episode of The Insomnia Project, Marco welcomes fan favourite and father-in-law Daniel Barker for a calm and easygoing conversation about the world of drumming.
Dan shares stories about drummers he knows, along with reflections on different styles, rhythms, and what makes percussion such a fascinating part of music. From technique to the subtle role drummers play in shaping a band’s sound, the conversation gently moves through the many layers of rhythm and musical expression.
Even with music as the focus, the discussion remains soft, meandering, and low-stakes — designed to soothe your mind, ease anxiety, and help you drift toward rest.
Whether you’re settling in for bedtime, taking a break during the day, or enjoying calm background audio while you work, this episode offers a peaceful listening experience. And if you fall asleep before it ends, that’s exactly what we hope for.
#sleeppodcast #insomniapodcast #relaxingpodcast #sleepconversation #calmpodcast #bedtimepodcast #fallasleepfast

​Drummers with Daniel Barker
(July 4, 2018)

Marco:  Welcome to the Insomnia Project. Sit back, relax and listen as we have a conversation about the mundane. One that will hopefully help you sort of drift off. Thank you for joining us.

Dan:  Us.

Marco:  I'm Marco Timpano. I'm also in Florida. So for our listeners, you know what that means. I have an episode with my father in law, Daniel Barker. Dan. Welcome to the Insomnia Project.

Dan:  Thank you.

Marco:  Now, Daniel, we, um. Our first episode that I recorded with you was about cymbals because you're a drummer and you worked in a cymbal factory and you pretty much know all things cymbal. But now I'd like to talk about drums and specifically drummers, because you're a drummer. How did you get into drums?

Dan:  Well, for me, it was pretty simple. Back around the early 60s, this group came from England called the Beatles. And all of a sudden you realize all these girls are going crazy over these four guys. And so being a young, um, 12 year old, um, a couple of kids in the neighbourhood, we would just kind of pantomime their records and stand in front of a mirror trying to do the moves. So what drew me to it really was girls. Oh.

Marco:  So not wanting to emulate Ringo Starr, just wanting to emulate the popularity that the Beatles had.

Dan:  Yeah, what I found out was that, uh, you know, everybody had their favourite beetles, so that was fine. Um, Ringo was kind of the guy that was quiet in his own way, even though he was a bit of a buffoon at times. But, um, a lot of the girls really went for him because of his demeanor. You know, he was quiet and sullen face up there, etc. So there we go. Um, I just imitated the way he looked.

Marco:  I see. And how is he, as a drummer,

Dan:  he's actually very underrated.

Marco:  Really?

Dan:  Yeah, I mean he's a self taught drummer. The thing with Ringo is that he has a style that I was able to emulate because he's left handed and he's playing a right handed drum set.

Marco:  Oh, I see.

Dan:  So it's not as, let's say natural for him to do a lot of the stuff other drummers do. But that gave him a bit of a boxy, um, percussive, very hard driving beat and that's what the Beatles liked about him because he played so differently.

Marco:  So he was a left hand handed drummer playing a right handed drum kit, is that correct?

Dan:  Right.

Marco:  Is it because there weren't left handed drum kits at the time?

Dan:  No, actually all you got to do is move a couple of drums to make it that way. But the thing is um, such as in my case, I'm sure that he was taught to play like uh, the way most drummers played. So nobody gave it a thought that he was left handed or right handed or whatever.

Marco:  Mr. How did you learn?

Dan:  Well first for the most part I was self taught, emulating and copying what I heard on records, etc. Um, it wasn't until I got out of the army that I took professional drum lessons. Um, the concept back there, back in those days was that a lot of the songs are very simple. We um, used to call them three chord progressions and that just meant that they were very, actually very simple to play. So um, once you get one or two or three beats down then you could just about do everything that was out there.

Marco:  And is that different today?

Dan:  Oh yeah, much different. Um, even back in the uh, 70s things started changing. You started having groups, whether it was Chicago, Blood, Sweat and Tears, the horn groups or the jazz, um, players were getting into a mixture of a rock, jazz thing going on in jazz. Um, what I mean by that for a drummer is that different time signatures were coming out. It wasn't just a 4, 4 or 3, 4, 2, 4 time. Uh, you might be playing um, something that's uh, say more jazz oriented, uh, uh, uh, five, four as an example, Dave Brubeck, the drum was Joe Morello. And instead of playing in four which meant four beats to the measure, this

Marco:  is what a time signature is. Yeah, okay.

Dan:  He was playing five and that just changed the whole thing around. So um, it progressed musically and I

Marco:  would imagine that the prevalence of Latin music also influenced how drums were played uh, in traditional rock bands and whatnot.

Dan:  Yeah, I mean uh, look at Woodstock and ah, Santana getting Up on stage, um, all of a sudden we saw congas and bongos and other things. But if you go back, a little historical thing here, back in the 50s and the 40s, a very big influence was Cuban music. And one of the best, uh, aficionados of that was a bebop, um, gentleman who I got to know, um, uh, Dizzy Gillespie. Oh. And Dizzy Gillespie actually would come down to the Factory because he had a certain, um, a couple of cymbals that he always wanted his guys to play. I mean he very had very acute taste and hearing. But he would show us the old, um, the old Cuban Latin rhythms and these things were, you know, uh, talking about 5 over 4. I mean you'd be talking 12 over 8 or 11 over 8. Something that's so odd that you'd have to count it out in your head and not just listen to the music to try to fit it in. Um, but back in those days and even today, if you go to Cuba, the band will be consisted of three or four percussionists, conga player, bongo player, um, somebody on uh, maracas and other asundry, uh, percussive instruments. So that influence was really always there, but kind of got hidden after the Beatles and then resurfaced.

Marco:  Wow. It's interesting because I've never heard you talk about Dizzy Gillespie and having met the person, what was he like?

Dan:  Very much a gentleman. Now I, I got to know him because he would come to the Factory and he would come two, three times a year. Uh, whenever he played up in the Boston area, he would stop in and um, he always had top notch players with him. So what we uh, would hang out at the Factory and that would be something he liked to do because he could, he could talk and talk, uh, music, uh, because we were all drummers, etc. And um, he was very much a gentleman. He um, was back in the 40s and 50s when he was coming up, he was uh, quite a player. He was one of the beginning of bebop was, you know, Dizzy led the charge there. And the thing is that he expanded beyond the jazz of the times to get into that whole thing. And he was quite a player. But when I got to know him, he had the puffy cheeks and his act was more of a uh, quote unquote shtick. Right? Because people expected to see his jowls go out as he played, etc.

Marco:  Right.

Dan:  And they really didn't understand, you know, some of the music that he uh, originated and how complicated it was to play. So he would just play to the crowd. By that time, as he was getting older, um, but very kind man. Grew up in a very tough era. Very, um, racial emotive. It was tough for him to go back home to South Carolina and play.

Marco:  Right?

Dan:  You know, uh, being black and etc. But, um. But no, he was. He was quite a guy.

Marco:  If you want to know more about the Factory, we did an episode on cymbals in season one. So I recommend that people go back and check out that episode. Uh, what are. Who are some other, uh, drummers that have a unique style or a style that you. You think is underrated?

Dan:  Well, you know, going back a few years ago, you start at the top. I mean, Gene Krupa, Buddy Rich, Louis Belson. Louis Belson was married to, uh, Pearl Bailey.

Marco:  Okay.

Dan:  And you just go down the line of the big band drummers and the jazz drummers of the time. M. A lot of them underrated, A lot of them, um, I mean, just tremendous players. Um, some of the ones that, um. Uh, you get into innovation, and some of them go to what I would call extremes. I mean, there was one young man who went up through Berkeley and all the jazz and all that. And last, uh, time I saw him, he. He was playing with twigs, uh, that he would cut off branches of trees rather than regular drumsticks. And the reason is, he said, well, it's so much more natural. You look at him and go, yeah, well, that's interesting. So he's out there cutting, uh, limbs off trees for his sticks. Um, but it would progress not just in one way or one area, would just kind of blossom. And certain drummers, um, made their money because they could imitate, um, and emulate a lot of that. A friend of mine whose name was Bernard Purdy. Bernard was Aretha Franklin's drummer from New York. Uh, did a lot of playing, playing, um, and he's on a lot of recordings. Um, we used to have a joke in the industry, and it would show the Beatles in their, um, outfits there. Um, I'm trying to think of what, uh, name of the album was.

Marco:  Sergeant Peppers.

Dan:  Thank you. Sergeant Peppers in those outfits. And instead of Ringo, they supplanted, uh, Bernard, who's black in the uniform. Because Bernard would say, yeah, I played on Beatles records. And people would ask, well, which ones? And back in the day, the drummer usually was the first, uh, uh, recording before the other players, because they. Because they said they set the right. Him and the bass player.

Marco:  Right?

Dan:  And so Bernard would go, yeah, I played quite a bit. I don't know uh, you know, because he, as. He was very honest, he'd say, I don't know which ones made it on the album. Um, I don't know which ones got canned. You know, that never happened.

Marco:  So would he be. Would he be recording his drum beat before Ringo would lay his on the album?

Dan:  No, it would be in lieu of Ringo sometimes. Okay. Um. If you go back to, um, sergeant Peppers and everything beyond, you'll notice that there's a lot of different rhythms in there. And, you know, Ringo's a very good drummer, but he had a certain way of playing that always sounded the same.

Marco:  Right, okay.

Dan:  And so they would bring in other people to play around them.

Marco:  I see, I see.

Dan:  I mean, even something. Let me just point out one of the early, uh, records, Love Me Do. Uh, Ringo didn't play on that.

Marco:  Oh, really?

Dan:  No, no, a studio drummer did. And, um, you know, it wasn't that tough a beat to play, but nonetheless, you know. No, it wasn't Ringo. And of course, uh, as the Beatles progressed, they brought in a lot of other musicians, you know, keyboard players and guitar players, etc. So, of course.

Marco:  Of course. Now you have a great story about a friend of yours who played with Elvis. Oh, yes, tell us about that.

Dan:  Well, the gentleman's name was Larry London, and I met him back when I was playing in the late, uh, 60s. Um, he came into the factory to, uh, pick out a set of cymbals. And at that point his career was. He actually started off as a singer. And when I knew him, he was a singer, but he took up playing drums and, uh, became one of the drummers of Motown back in the day. And from Motown in Detroit, uh, Chet Atkins, um, came across him and said, uh, why don't you move to Nashville? We're doing quite a bit of recordings and I could use you. So he went to Nashville and he was one of the most recorded drummers, um, not just in country, but, uh, in a lot of areas. He, um, was a powerhouse guy drummer, uh, one of the best. And he, um, played on several cuts of Journey and. And other, uh, top groups. And um. Uh. Uh, what happened is that, uh, Elvis always, uh, kept his musicians for a long time. And he had this, uh, drummer, uh, excellent drummer, um, and he was from la. And Elvis says, well, we're going to take a break here. And this was really before he got into the Las Vegas thing.

Marco:  Right.

Dan:  And so these people were all put on retainer. And back in those days, the Drummer's retainer was $50,000 a year.

Marco:  Impressive.

Dan:  Just to be there. And, uh, that was a lot of money back then. That would be like a quarter of a million today.

Marco:  Sure.

Dan:  But Elvis always took care of his people. And this guy's name was Ron Tutt. And Ron went, um, back to LA and started doing some recording business. Helen Reddy. And, um, a lot of, A lot of the recordings of the time that came out was Ron Tutt. So he's doing okay here day in and day out playing on the recording. So after about a year and a half, I think it was. Think it was quite two years, Elvis says, okay, I'm ready, let's. I want to get on the road, etc. And Ron says, well, Elvis, um, I really don't want to give this up. I'm having a great time. I get to sleep my own bed every night. You know, my wife cooks a meal. It's great. So says, okay, well, you know, we wish you the best. And there we go. What happens is that they audition drummers. Well, Larry London gets a gig. So they're in rehearsal, ready to go out, and Ron Tutt calls Elvis and says, man, I made a mistake. Oh, and Elvis didn't, you know, was put in that terrible position. And so he goes to Larry and he says, hey, man, you know, Ron wants to come back. And Larry, uh, always a gentleman. And I learned quite a bit from him this way. He said, well, he's been with you for years, Elvis. I understand. And Elvis looked at Larry, man, I really appreciate that. He said, I'm going to pay you for the whole tour. And Larry said, no, no, no, I don't want the money. All I ask of you is if anything ever happens to Ron, that I get the call first and I'll sit, I promise you. So what happens? They're out on tour, Ron Tut's doing the gig, etc. Out of the blue, Larry gets a call. They were playing up in Detroit that night. And what happened in rehearsal is Ron Tutt walked off the stage. He fell off the stage, broke a leg. I believe it was a leg or an arm, I don't remember which. But he couldn't play. And so Larry gets a call and Larry says, yep, I'll be up there for the gig tonight. He had to book like three plane seats to put his drums on the plane. They fly up to Detroit. He doesn't. Doesn't get much of a rehearsal at all. Just gets right to the venue and off they go. And that was the last tour that Elvis did.

Marco:  Wow.

Dan:  So Larry finished up that tour and, um, he had a, he had a lot of great stories. He once, uh, was invited to Vidalia, uh, Georgia. I remember this because it's the onion Capital Georgia. Okay. And he flies in a small plane. They pick him up and they've got a parade all set up with high school band and everything to march through town. They put him on this chair up on a flatbed, um, and he's waving to the crowd and nobody wanted to see Elvis's drummer.

Marco:  What was he like as a person?

Dan:  He was great. I consider him. One of the nice things about my career is a lot of these guys became friends. They weren't just business colleagues or associates. Um, and Larry was one of those, um, uh, he would go out of his way if you needed help.

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Dan:  Uh, I'll tell you one other quick story that I think is important is back in the days, um, it was Larry and about five other guys that would be doing all the recording out of Nashville. And they get a call for this young artist. And so they go in the studio and they're playing and this girl's singing. And the producer is saying, no, no, I want you to do this, I want you to do that. And the big thing at the time in country was Tammy Wynette. I want you to sing like Tammy Wynette. And she wasn't very comfortable doing that. And she was singing her own songs. And Larry and the guys take a break, smoke, uh, break outside. And they're talking going, man, he's gonna ruin her. She's got something right, you know, she's got some talent. But, uh, this guy doesn't let up. So Larry is a big guy, over 300 pounds, and he goes up and says, you should back off, you know, and, and the producer being the producer, said, you know, you mind your own business. I know what I'm doing. Just get behind those names. You do what I tell you, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, Larry took enough guff through the years. He looks at him and says, you know what, pal? You're fired. Guy looks at him and says, you can't fire me. He says, oh, yeah, I can arrange it. He says, you're off this project. He said, me and the boys, we're gonna produce this. And so they all go to Chet Adkins. Chet Adkins says, no, Larry doesn't want you. So anyways, they put out the album, and as they say, the rest is history. Because the person doing the recording was Dolly Parton. Oh, yeah.

Marco:  That's amazing.

Dan:  Yep. And it's like Larry would have stories. He'd say, yeah, there I am shopping, you know, with my wife, coming down the, uh, island. Who do I see but dully part and pushing a cart.

Marco:  This is in Nashville.

Dan:  This is in Nashville. Nashville is a great little town.

Marco:  Um, you lived there for a while.

Dan:  Yes. Yes. And it's quite surprising some of the people you run into, you know, um, I was in a little mall, and a storekeeper looked at me and says, you see that, uh, girl down there? Down the aisle? And I look and there's like, four women talking to me. I said, oh, the blonde? Yeah. Uh, I said, you know who that is? I said, no. Very attractive, you know.

Marco:  Sure.

Dan:  But no, I have no idea. I said, oh, that's Carrie Underwood.

Marco:  Oh, wow.

Dan:  So it's one of those funny little places is, uh, you go to symphony, and next thing you know, there's, you know, George Strait or somebody there, uh, you know, with you. It's a very personal little town now. Sure.

Marco:  I remember being at one of the Christmas parties that you had at your place, and there was some musicians there and just talking to them, and they all had Grammys under their belts, and they were all going to these music awards and whatnot. And they were people who worked in the factory and people that you knew, and they were all musicians and very accomplished as well.

Dan:  Yeah, I mean, uh, the thing about Nashville is all types of, uh, music going on. Not just country. It's a lot of rock, a lot of symphonic music that's played there. Uh, Nashville's got a very, very nice symphony, brand new hall. You know, they got flower flooded out years ago, but, uh, nonetheless, uh, quite a bit. And of course, uh, gospel and bluegrass. Yeah.

Marco:  Quite a bit of great music comes and has come from Nashville. What impresses you in a drummer that you listen to, even if you don't know the band and you're listening to a drummer.

Dan:  My grandfather was a musician, and he told me, gave me some sage advice once. He said, go and see all the musicians, all the drummers you can. He said, even if you're better than they are, you can pick up on certain things that will help you. And so I look for some different things, um, drummers that play the same, you know, I'm not that impressed, no matter how good they are. But, um, drummers that have something unique, um, that is, you know, what I look at and I admire, um, and some have done very well. This, uh, guy named Steve Gad, who I got to know many years ago, uh, when we were both young and he became big session drummer out in New york, well schooled, etc. But he has this thing that we call playing behind the beat.

Marco:  Okay.

Dan:  It's almost like he's dragging the beat on the music, but it doesn't feel like the song's being dragged down or anything like that. Now, uh, he's played, uh, some wooden, some very notable people and uh, one of them was Paul Simon.

Marco:  Okay.

Dan:  And back in the day of Simon Gough uncle. But, uh, Paul Simon when he was a solo act and he's done quite a bit of his recordings and if you listen to the drums, like 50 Ways to Leave your lover, right, that a beat that Steve Gad had been playing and practicing by himself. There was something to the count there that he wanted to get down. He had it in his head, but it took a long time for him to figure it out. And so when they went in to do 50 ways Steve, uh, said, gee Paul, I think I got something that might fit in this song. And again, as they say, the rest is history. Right. Uh, but Steve, um, is always on there. But it's a style, it's something that has led the charge for a lot of others.

Marco:  Well, this has been a quality episode, possibly one of the best. I want to thank my father in law, Daniel Barker, for being on this episode. Thank you.

Dan:  So you had to come all the way to Florida?

Marco:  That's right. And it's not even a question of wanting to, to come to Florida, but we have so many of our listeners saying, when are you going to do another episode with your father in law?

Dan:  So, yeah, right.

Marco:  I swear we get a ton of emails asking for you to be on our show. So that said, if you want to hear more with Daniel Barker, go to our patreon page. So patreon.com the insomniaproject. And there's more content there. So if you follow into one of our tiers, you'll see the content that you can get with Daniel Barker. Uh, until the next time that I'm

Dan:  in Florida, look at this. I put my wife asleep. There you go.

Marco:  She's on the bed in the hotel room right now. Fastest thing until next time. I want to thank you. As always, the Insomnia project is, uh, produced by drumcast Productions, and this episode was recorded in Tampa, Florida.

Marco:  And this is Marco just popping back in here to let you know that this particular interview went longer than our 26 minutes. And Dan talks more about drummers and people he's known and, uh, fun little stories about famous people in the music industry. If you want to hear that additional content, it is available on our Patreon page. So if you go to patreon.com theinsomniaproject that's P A T slash the Insomnia Project, you can get the second half or the continuation of this episode where Dan goes into more detail. I know there's a lot of fans of Dan out there, so if you're a Dan fan, go to our Patreon page.