Fantasy NBA Pool: The How-Tos | A Soothing Sleep Podcast for Overthinkers

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Marco Timpano welcomes back guest Trevor Martin for a relaxed discussion about fantasy NBA pools, exploring how fantasy basketball leagues work and what makes them engaging for fans. This low-stimulation, easygoing episode offers calming, sports-themed content perfect for bedtime listening.
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Fantasy Basketball Unraveled | A Gentle Dive into the World of Leagues and Drafts (Episode 16)
Marco Timpano: Welcome to the Insomnia Project. Sit back, relax and listen as we have a conversation, a chat if you will, about the mundane. One thing we can promise is that our conversation will be less than fascinating so that you can feel free to just drift off. We invite you to go to itunes and rate Leave a little comment. We love that. I want to thank you for joining us. We hope you will listen and sleep. I'm your host, Marco Tampano and joining me on today's episode is Trevor Martin. Welcome, Trevor.
Trevor Martin: Thank you, Marco.
Trevor Dantonio is passionate about fantasy basketball
Marco Timpano: Trevor, I wanted to talk to you about something that I know you're very passionate about and that is a fantasy NBA pool.
Trevor Martin: That's right.
Marco Timpano: You gotta walk me through this because I've never been in a fantasy pool before and I don't know how they work. So let me ask you this. What's the first thing you do?
Trevor Martin: the first thing you have to do is you join a league. Now in my case, I am in two leagues. One is a normal league. It's a standard season long league where we play essentially with a team that we draft at the beginning of the year until the end. And the end is usually before the playoffs of the actual NBA season. The other league I'm in is a dynasty league.
Marco Timpano: Oh, my goodness.
Trevor Martin: And a dynasty league is where you keep the same team from year to year.
Marco Timpano: Oh, so if I was to join, it would be, this is my team from today to 20 years from today.
Trevor Martin: That's right. And the only way you can really change your team is we would. You would draft rookies who join the league, or you would make trades with other managers.
Marco Timpano: So essentially you become a manager for this dynasty. That's right. But what happens when one of your players. So let me see if I got this straight. You sort of sit down with your computer and paper and you sort of figure out who you want on your team, and you pick how many players?
Trevor Martin: depending on the league, probably up to 13 players. 13? My. My Dynasty League, we. We have 18 players.
Marco Timpano: Okay.
Trevor Martin: Which is a lot.
Marco Timpano: So under 20, right?
Trevor Martin: Yeah.
Marco Timpano: And you're figuring out who you want on your team so that when they're actually playing in the NBA, the amount of baskets they get.
Trevor Martin: Yes.
Marco Timpano: Accrue to your point system.
Trevor Martin: That's right.
Marco Timpano: Versus my point system right now, week to week. Right?
Trevor Martin: Week to week, yeah. There are several different types of fantasy league scoring. there is,
Marco Timpano: Okay, before we get into. Walk me through your process. So it's.
Nidhi Khanna: It's.
Marco Timpano: Would you call it draft day or like the start of the season?
Trevor Martin: So you have a draft day, you do your research, you decide who is going to be, who's in the best situation now, because it changes from year to year where somebody, will retire and they'll be like, oh, this backup is now going to be the. The, starting point guard or something else is. Someone has changed teams or a new coach has come in and maybe they have a faster, style of playing. That happened right, with the Houston Rockets recently, where Mike d', Antoni, who is a very. Who's known for, he was Steve Nash's coach. And,
Marco Timpano: And Steve Nash, for our listeners, was a great Canadian basketball player.
Trevor Martin: He won the MVP twice when Mike d' Antonio was coaching him. And it's because he had a, he had a style called seven seconds or less. And it's basically the idea was as soon as they got the ball within seven seconds, they would shoot, they would have a shot.
Marco Timpano: This is Dantonio's.
Trevor Martin: This is Danton strategy. And so now he's applied this to the Houston Rockets. And now players on the Houston Rockets are very coveted in fantasy because they, their pace is so fast. They're always shooting, and so they get
Marco Timpano: more shots on net, right?
Trevor Martin: Which means that more people are going to score. There are going to be more statistics that happen. It's all about. My wife says it's numbers. You're just watching numbers. Really. We could be doing this with the weather. We literally just be. What. Look, what's the barometric pressure in Houston today?
Marco Timpano: Right?
Trevor Martin: It would be the same as James Harden's field goal percentage. but so, so on draft day, usually what happens is there's a snake draft, which means, so a snake
Marco Timpano: draft, like a snake.
Trevor Martin: The reason it's called a snake draft is because if there are 12 managers, there are randomly. There's a random order that goes out, okay, from 1 to 12. And the reason they call it a snake is because it winds like a snake. So. So if you have the 12th pick, the order goes in reverse order. So as if, like a snake, you have the 12th pick and you have the 13th pick, and then it snakes around to the first. I'm making a hand emotion to show you. But, it's called a snake draft because it's. It just goes into reverse order every time. there's another type of drafting, which is called auction drafting, where you get fake money, basically, and you bid for the players that you want. So you can spend a lot of money on one player and then end up having to budget for the rest. For the rest. that's not a style that I usually play with. I usually play with just a traditional draft.
Marco Timpano: So during the snake draft. Back to the snake draft, who is number one or the first manager or the first player to select.
Trevor Martin: It's always, randomized by the computer. You don't know until the draft is about to happen, and then you find out like five minutes before the draft starts. And it's. There's a strategy to it because, everyone essentially has the same order where they did. There's. There's some obviously excellent players in the NBA. LeBron James, for example.
Trevor, how do you pick your players for fantasy football leagues
You sure he's. Although statistically he's not great lately. but there are people who. James Harden was the guy I just mentioned. He's the number one guy because he's
Marco Timpano: the number one draft pick. Not only for fantasy football, for fantasy basketball.
Trevor Martin: Sorry. Because he's a basketball. Yeah. he's always number one because he plays in that system I was talking to you about. He basically always has the ball and so he's always passing. So he gets assists, he scores, he hits three pointers. So you're trying to maximize the most valuable players are the ones who do. Who contribute the most number of statistics. I see.
Marco Timpano: So it's not necessarily how many baskets you make. So for example, it's not like, okay, my players this week made. I don't know if you call it baskets or points or what you would call it. It's points. my players made 29 points and yours made 38. It's also assists and things like that.
Trevor Martin: Rebounds, depending on the league that you're in. In the league that I'm in, the Dynasty league, there are 13 different categories and they go everywhere from points to free throws that they've made to their percentage of free throws that they've made. so how, how well good they are shooting to, personal fouls.
Marco Timpano: Wow.
Trevor Martin: So if somebody is. Has a penchant for getting a lot of personal vowels, that is a negative.
Marco Timpano: It subtracts from your tracks.
Trevor Martin: Also turnover. Some people like, if they fumble the ball or they get it stolen from them a lot. And again, that's somebody like James Harden, who's very good at everything else because he always has the ball. It's more likely that someone is going to steal it from him or he's going to make a mistake and pass
Marco Timpano: it off somewhere and then you're gonna have a subtraction.
Trevor Martin: Yeah. And then. So in that category, he is a negative.
Marco Timpano: Okay.
Trevor Martin: But in. But he's such a positive in all the other ones that it sort of out outweighs that.
Marco Timpano: So. Okay, I, I would assume that in the Snake draft you want to be in position one, or is it more strategic to be a little bit later on in picking?
Trevor Martin: It's interesting because position one, you get the best player. Right. But then you don't pick again until number 24. Right. So you get the, you get the best guy. But then 24 later, you're getting like someone who is essentially not even in the second round, third round. The way that people usually grade players is by position, by tier. So because there's usually 12 managers in a league, the first tier would be the top 12 players.
Marco Timpano: Okay.
Trevor Martin: And then second tier would be, you know, the, the next, the 12, 13 to 24. And you usually call them. So you would say that has a first round talent. I see. now. Yeah. So I mean, personally I usually like to get somewhere in the middle. So it's like number four, number five, and then that way it's not that far away from me getting the next
Marco Timpano: pick because it goes down the snake and then back up. Is that why?
Trevor Martin: Right, so number 12 is also going
Marco Timpano: to get number 13 and number, 11 is now going to get the 14th pick.
Trevor Martin: Yes.
Marco Timpano: Okay, so that's what you mean by snake.
Trevor Martin: That's what I mean.
Marco Timpano: Okay, so snakes up and down the
Trevor Martin: snake's body, let's say. Exactly.
Marco Timpano: Wow. Okay, so so far all I understand is the snake position. All right, so. Or the snake picking. Can't even get that straight. So, Trevor, tell me what you do. You sit down and how do you pick your players?
Trevor Martin: So what, what happens is we. You. I always, My leagues are always on the Yahoo site there.
Marco Timpano: Oh. So that's what keeps track of all the statistics.
Trevor Martin: Yahoo. The Yahoo League is usually, is, I think, the most popular. There's espn also has one. Okay. but Yahoo, essentially you join a league, usually there's a commissioner who starts the league.
Marco Timpano: And this would be someone you know or can you like the ones that you've joined. They're people run by people for the
Trevor Martin: most part now it's people that I know. Okay.
Marco Timpano: Yeah.
Trevor Martin: and, they're usually the, they're people. And they. My professional community. So I'm an actor and a writer. Sure. These are people who are, are managers now. so they invite you to the league. You make up your name, your silly name, and it's usually anything. It's usually a pun on somebody else's. You know, I have a clip.
You start tiering your players before the draft. Um, so, uh, you, you pick your name
I have my. My favorite player is a guy named Kristaps Porzingis. And so my team name is Mary Kristaps because it was Christmas.
Marco Timpano: Sure. So I would be like the Insomnia Project team, let's say. Sure.
Trevor Martin: Right. Yeah, you could totally do that.
Marco Timpano: Sleep and play. For sure.
Trevor Martin: so, you, you, you pick your name and then you wait for the draft day and then you, then you start tiering your players. So then you go, who, if I got the first pick, who would I pick? And then you work your way down from there. And then the important thing is, especially in the first two rounds, get the best person available. Okay. Doesn't matter what position they play, all that kind of stuff. You just want whoever you think is best overall. and then because the NBA especially is about talent, it's about top end talent.
Marco Timpano: Right.
Trevor Martin: There's usually one or two really good players on your team and then the rest are sort of like supporting players. Okay. so what we'll do, what I'll do is I'll rank the players that I think are gonna do well. And I usually get that from the help of other websites. Yahoo does it as well as, there are websites, espn, Roto World. There are the things where they do a ranking for you, and from
Marco Timpano: your own personal knowledge, from my own
Trevor Martin: personal research that I've done and from
Marco Timpano: watching games, you'll be like, I'm impressed with this place. Players.
Trevor Martin: Yeah, exactly. And there are also players that I have a personal bias towards.
Marco Timpano: Sure.
Trevor Martin: There are other teams that I don't like. Usually, it's younger players. there's also the worry about injury prone players.
Marco Timpano: Right.
Trevor Martin: Players who, who like. There are some really good players who just get hurt all the time.
Marco Timpano: Yeah. Because I want to know what happens if you. So you pick your, say 12 to 18 people.
Trevor Martin: Yeah.
Marco Timpano: What if four people get injured in
Trevor Martin: your season, you are in trouble, you're just not going like there's nothing really what you can do at that point is, you can try to trade them and say, listen, maybe these guys will be better in a few weeks and try to get some value. Or you can drop them. And then there's something called the waiver wire, which is essentially all the players who have not been selected in the draft are available. And you can essentially get rid of your players and then pick somebody off from the waiver wire. And quite often it'll be really young players who haven't established themselves or people who are in a supporting. but what ends up happening is somebody gets injured and then somebody takes their place and usually that person is not on anybody's team. So if James Harden gets injured then whoever is on the bench, maybe Sam Decker or whoever. Right. You can, you can usually find them on the waiver wire and then get them to replace, them.
Marco Timpano: But then you've given up someone that.
Trevor Martin: But then you've given up a really valuable talent. And if you're not willing to wait out the injury, then someone else can scoop them up and be patient. And then all of a sudden they're healthy again and now they've got the best player. usually the scoring. What happens is I play in what's called a head to head league, which is every week you are head to head with another manager.
Marco Timpano: Oh, I see.
Trevor Martin: So I'll be playing, like my friend Chris Bond is in league. So if I play Chris that week, it's just his team versus my team for that week, statistically for those number of games.
Marco Timpano: I see.
Trevor Martin: And then at the end of the week we are assigned a point for every category that we win. So he might win points, he might win assists, he might win offensive rebounds, I might win the field goal percentage or blocks or whatever. And then you get a score to that. And usually it's, I think it's, we have 14, 14 categories. So it's like, it might end up being like something like eight to six or something. So if I get eight points, that goes into my point allotment and then I go up and down. So, the idea is you want to do as best as well as you can during the regular season. And then at the end of the year, there's a playoffs.
Marco Timpano: Right.
Trevor Martin: And that, the thing about fantasy basketball is you don't, the fantasy basketball has to end before the real playoffs start because only a certain number of teams make the actual playoffs, right? So you have all these players. Like if only 16, teams make the playoffs, there's 30 teams, 14 teams will, in real NBA, will no longer be playing.
Marco Timpano: Right. And you might have players and you
Trevor Martin: might have team players. So in order to make it fair, you have to. The end of the, of the fantasy playoffs is the end of the regular season. Okay. If that makes sense.
Marco Timpano: So, so at the end of the regular season is everyone dropping players like crazy and picking up teams they think, players from teams that they think are going to go forward.
Trevor Martin: It can happen. So what ends up happening is at the end of the fantasy regular, season, you either make the playoffs, usually the top six teams make what is known as the playoffs, and they go into a separate pool. and what ends up happening is they fight it out to a win the championship.
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In dynasty leagues, if you drop someone, you lose them forever
Trevor Martin: Then the bottom six go into the consolation playoffs.
Marco Timpano: Okay?
Trevor Martin: Now, usually in fantasy leagues, what happens is if you're in the playoffs and you lose your week and you're no longer in, you stop all activity.
Marco Timpano: Oh, okay.
Trevor Martin: Because they don't want to make it. So it's like, oh, I'm just, it doesn't matter for me anymore. So I'm just going to drop all my good players, right. And, and then let other people pick them up. That's not, that's not cool. Right? So, what ends up happening is, if you lose, you're done. And you just watch. Okay. in my dynasty league, if you drop. If you're in the playoffs and you drop somebody, you lose them forever, basically.
Marco Timpano: Oh, you can't re. Pick them up.
Trevor Martin: You can't re pick them up. Yeah, they go basically into, this pool that at the beginning of the next season, oh, these people are available.
Marco Timpano: Can you pick them up at the beginning of the next season?
Trevor Martin: You can't. Well, if you can, because what happens is we end up having another draft.
Marco Timpano: Right. so do your players carry over to the next. The ones you've capped, they carry over
Trevor Martin: in the dynasty league, they do carry up. So we have 18 players on a roster. We can keep up to 12 players. So. Okay, so you, you. Yeah, if you say you have 12 players that you're really, you really like, you keep them. But say you have 14 that you
Marco Timpano: really like, you got to give up
Trevor Martin: 12 and you've got to give up two. And then they go into this draft so that on draft day, it's not just the number one team isn't just hoarding all these great players. Right. It makes them make decisions to have to let go of usually younger players who haven't established themselves. And it's like, oh, I can take that guy, keep him on my team, watch him grow. And then. So it's a long term commitment and it's, it's, it. I mean, it takes a lot of time at the beginning of the season and then as the season goes on, it's just. You're just watching it.
Marco Timpano: So I would imagine that being part of a fantasy basketball league or, pool, let's say, whether it's basketball, football, whatever, really leads to more enjoyment of the sport when you're watching.
Trevor Martin: Yeah, you end up watching because you end up watching teams that you don't care about. Like, I'm a Toronto Raptors fan, right. But I don't have really any Toronto Raptors on my team.
Marco Timpano: Oh, really?
Trevor Martin: But, I have guys. I have, like, I have a lot of players from the Denver Nuggets on my team who I could care less about that team.
Marco Timpano: Right.
Trevor Martin: But. Sorry, Miracle, Sorry, Michelle. Miracle. They're a good team. They're a good young team. And that's why I have a lot of their players, is because they're young and they're up and coming. and, But it also makes it interesting to watch their games because it's like, oh, I know that guy. I care what happens to that guy. But you're watching it from a different perspective. You're not saying, oh, I want them to win. I just want that guy to do really well.
Marco Timpano: Oh, isn't it?
Trevor Martin: If they lose, who cares? Right?
Marco Timpano: Right.
Trevor Martin: It's. Yeah, it's. It just changes your perspective on the game. Yeah.
Marco Timpano: Okay, so let me ask you this. Has there ever been an incident where you've picked someone up, you didn't think they were going to do well, or you didn't expect them to do as well as they did, and then you're like, this person has been a gold star player for me.
Trevor Martin: Oh, yeah, There is a player named Paul Millsap who has.
Marco Timpano: Who does he play for?
Trevor Martin: He plays now for the Atlanta Hawks. He used to play for the Utah Jets.
Marco Timpano: He.
Trevor Martin: So he was what you would call in the real world, he was drafted, in the second round, which means every team is. There's 30 first round picks. He was picked after that, so like, like 37th or something.
Marco Timpano: Okay.
Trevor Martin: Nobody thought he was anything.
Marco Timpano: Right.
Trevor Martin: and then I picked him because I was like, this guy. I like this guy.
Marco Timpano: Like, what was it about him that you like? What did you see?
Trevor Martin: See, I like players who are, gritty, who just. Who just, like, they just do the dirty work. Right. I don't like the flashy players. I like the ones that just have a hard hat and then you just go out there and he was the type of player who was behind somebody else. He was, like a, on the bench and. But every time that his the guy in the starters got injured. He would always like, have like five games where it was. He was amazing. But then the guy would get healthy again because they're paying him 50 million, they gotta play him.
Marco Timpano: Right? Sure.
Jasper Christing turned out not to be as good as Chris
Trevor Martin: And so Paul said, we'll go back to the bench. And I was like, this guy's a gold miner. One day they're gonna realize, no, he's the one. And they're gonna. And sure enough, they did. And I just get, I just remembered I'm holding onto this guy for sure. The other guy, I would say is Kristaps Porzingis, the guy who named my team after.
Marco Timpano: Right.
Trevor Martin: Because I made a trade with, casting director Steve Mann.
Marco Timpano: Okay.
Trevor Martin: And he said, I want this player that you have and I'll give you my, my rookie draft pick. I was like, okay, fine, I gave him that player.
Marco Timpano: And was that player a good player that you sacrificed?
Trevor Martin: You know, he turned out to be a good player, but not as good as Chris. Jasper Christing is going to be like a worldwide superstar, okay. Because he's like, he's from, he's from Latvia, okay. And he's like just. He's what they call a unicorn because he's seven feet tall, but he can shoot a three pointer. Okay? So. And it's like that's what in basketball, that's the way the NBA basketball is going now. It's like centers aren't like Shaquille o', Neal, you know, those big guys who just stood around the basket and that. The game has totally changed because now three points used to be a novelty. Three point shooting used to be a novelty, and now it's the norm. Ah.
Trevor Martin: And it's like people, most people can shoot three pointers and three is more than two. So if you can shoot, all you have to do is shoot like 30% from three point. If you shoot. If you shoot 10 three pointers and you only hit three, that's nine points, right? To get nine points, you'd have to hit four or five regular shots, right? So it's just the, the averages are better of you scoring more points if you shoot three pointers anyway. That's just the way the league is going. So it's more valuable to have a guy who's super tall who can shoot three pointers, get you points, also get you rebounds, also get you blocked shots. Like, he's like. And that's why they call him a unicorn, because they're so rare. It's so rare to find. So somebody who's that tall and that skilled.
Marco Timpano: And you don't know if a European player or a player who's not North American playing in the North American League is going to be able to, you know, really get it and go with it.
Trevor Martin: No offense to your countryman, Andrea Barnani, but that is a case of not, a unicorn.
Nidhi Khanna: Right.
Trevor Martin: Because people had a horse with a horn stapled.
Marco Timpano: A lot of high hopes for him, but he didn't really deliver.
Trevor Martin: And he had that. He had that, that physicality. He was seven feet tall, and he was supposed to be able to shoot three pointers, and he was supposed to be able to get block shots, and he just couldn't do any of it. He was just not. He just didn't have that certain quality.
Marco Timpano: And where is he now?
Trevor Martin: He's back in Italy.
Marco Timpano: Yeah, I met him once. He was really lovely.
Trevor Martin: I'm sure he's great. I'm sure he's a nice guy.
Marco Timpano: Not on the court, it seems.
Trevor Martin: No, on the court, he was a little too lovely. Okay, sure.
Trevor brings some clarity to this whole fantasy pool
Marco Timpano: Before we end this episode, which I have to thank you because you've brought some clarity to this whole fantasy pool.
Trevor Martin: I swear to you, I could talk for another two hours.
Marco Timpano: Maybe we'll have a part two.
Trevor Martin: Maybe.
Marco Timpano: what I should do is record you on draft day and see what's going on.
Trevor Martin: They won't fall asleep. No one will fall asleep. Why are you just like, I'm too excited. I'm too.
Marco Timpano: I just get, what's it like on draft day? Like, are you like, leave me alone. I'm in my zone. I need an animal a little bit.
Trevor Martin: Leave me alone. And then you end up chatting with the other managers as they go, because
Marco Timpano: everyone's doing it same time, right?
Trevor Martin: Exact same.
Marco Timpano: So you have to block off that time out of your day. Like, you can't work, you can't.
Trevor Martin: What you. But what ends up happening is if you can't make it, the computer makes the choices for you based on what
Marco Timpano: you plug in, what you plugged in.
Trevor Martin: Yeah. but that's not fun, right? so, Yeah, so what will end up happening is, yeah, I'll tell Dale. I gotta have this time. And you end up talking trash with all the other managers. What's interesting is, like, we were talking about draft day. so you try to get the best players in the beginning, and then afterwards, you have. Every day, you have to fill out your roster, and your roster is made at a different position. So you have point guard, shooting guard, small forward, power forward, center. You have to have all of those types of players in order to fill in those slops. So if you have five point guards, you don't have a position, you don't have a slot in your roster to put all of them in.
Marco Timpano: Right?
Trevor Martin: So you have to also get centers, you also have to get power forward. So towards the end of the draft, you're looking for positional need, as well. And that's when it becomes a little more complicated because you're like, this guy's way better. But I've already got too many of that type of player. I need to get this guy who's not as good. And so that's where the sort of the art or the skill comes in.
Marco Timpano: So, Trevor, if I was to ask you to give a tip or two to the novice person who's entering a fantasy pool, what were your, what would your tips be?
Trevor Martin: I think my main tip would be, if you, if you're. When in doubt in the opening rounds, pick talent over positional need. But if always pick a point guard. You need point guards and you need,
Trevor Martin: you need, you know what? actually strike that. You need wing players. So shooting guards and small forwards. In the league right now, there are a lot of point guards and there are a lot of centers, but there are not a lot of in betweens. So if you have a choice, pick those guys first. Pick guys who will give you assists. And don't worry so much about points and three pointers. Everybody in the league now is shooting points and everybody's shooting three pointers. You can figure that out later. Right? Get the rarities, which are things like blocks and assists and steals. There are only a few guys in the league who are elite at that kind of thing. And if you can find those guys, then, all of a sudden, like, you've got that stuff covered and you can, you can deal with less pressing things later. Yeah. Which is great.
Marco Timpano: There you go. Well, thank you, Trevor, for helping to bring some insight to the fantasy pool.
Trevor Martin: Anytime.
Marco Timpano: you're listening to the Insomnia Project, and as always, we're, we're produced by drumcast Productions, and we were recording this episode in Toronto, Canada.