March 22nd, 2016

Looking for a sleep podcast to fall asleep fast, reduce anxiety, and quiet an overactive mind? This calming episode of The Insomnia Project is designed for insomnia relief, stress reduction, and gentle nighttime unwinding through slow, soothing conversation.
Marco Timpano welcomes guest Lucy Di Rosa for a relaxed discussion exploring Italian cinema, etymology, and the culture of Brooklyn. From reflections on classic Italian films and their storytelling style to the origins and meanings of words, this episode offers thoughtful, low-stimulation content perfect for bedtime listening.
The conversation also drifts into Brooklyn’s character and charm, creating a cozy, meandering atmosphere filled with soft-spoken storytelling and gentle curiosity. With its unhurried pace and simple topics, this relaxing podcast episode helps quiet racing thoughts, ease anxiety, and support restful sleep.
Whether you’re searching for a sleep podcast for insomnia, calming background noise for work, or a peaceful way to unwind at night, The Insomnia Project provides a comforting, reliable escape.

​Brooklyn, Etymology & Italian Cinema
(Original airdate: Sept 28, 2016)

 Welcome to the Insomnia Project. Sit back, relax and listen as we have a conversation about the mundane. One thing that we can promise is that our conversation will be hopefully less than fascinating so you that then you can just drift off. Thank you for joining us. We hope you will listen and sleep.


Marco Timpano welcomes Lucy DeRosa to the podcast

I'm your host Marco Timpano and I am delighted to have a dear friend, Lucy DeRosa, here on the podcast today.

Lucy Di Rosa:  Marco, I'm really excited to be talking with you. I've known you for so many years, and I am a fan of the podcast, so I'm excited.

Marco Timpano:  Lucy, you are one of our earliest fans, and you were such a proponent for our show that I'm kind of thrilled to be recording this. And for those of our listeners who listened to episode I think was 62 with Shane Jacobson, I had mentioned that I ran into him through a high school friend, which is you.

Lucy Di Rosa:  It is I.

Marco Timpano:  So, uh, our listeners got connected to Shane because I got connected to him through you. And you guys were at TIFF watching a, um, film that I did the translation for the intro to, and it was all happenstance.

Lucy Di Rosa:  It was all happenstance. And I thought it was really funny when you said, oh, I'm doing a translation, and I'm interpreting for a director at tiff, And I, out of hundreds of films, said, oh, is it indivisible? Which, I don't know if you thought that was strange, because out of all the hundreds of films, but I just happened to be. I already had tickets to see it, and I was so excited to see you working there that day and then spending the day together. It was really fun.

Marco Timpano:  And it's funny because you were in the audience, and I was nervous because of all the people that I didn't want to disappoint who were listening to me translate and knowing that you're fluent in Italian, that you would pick out any mistakes, I would do. You were the one who made me the most nervous to do the translation. But it all worked out great in the end.

Lucy Di Rosa:  It did work out.

Marco Timpano:  And, um, now we have you on our podcast. I want to mention that our listeners can follow you at your Twitter handle, which is a cool, um, Twitter handle, which is Lucy B. Klyn, which stands for Brooklyn, because that's where we are recording this particular episode.

Lucy Di Rosa:  That's where we are. And that's where I've lived for 16 years, even though I grew up in Toronto, where you usually work and where you live.


What do you love most about Brooklyn compared to Manhattan

We are in Brooklyn. Indeed, we are very well.

Marco Timpano:  And what is it you love most about Brooklyn?

Lucy Di Rosa:  Well, Brooklyn itself is very, very large. It's much larger than Manhattan, and it's very diverse.

Marco Timpano:  Right.

Lucy Di Rosa:  Uh, you know, you can experience the ocean in Brooklyn. You can experience rivers. You can experience all kinds of ethnic foods and very different communities. You know, it takes an hour or so by subway to get from where we are to the other end of Brooklyn, it's a whole world in and of itself, and I love it. And it's a little bit more. It's very lively, but it's a little bit more relaxed than Manhattan.

Marco Timpano:  It feels a little more real. I love Manhattan, don't get me wrong. So for our listeners in Manhattan, love New York City, but there's something about Brooklyn that feels very real and it's very palatable. And, uh, it's also now a very hip place to go and visit. And I'm happy to be here, uh, with you. So follow Lucy at Lucy Bklyn. And that's also your Instagram account.

Lucy Di Rosa:  It is, yes.

Marco Timpano:  So we'll post a picture on the Instagram account of us.


We were talking about etymology, which is the origin of words

Um, Lucy, we were talking about etymology, which is the origin of words, in a very loose sort of definition. Uh, of it or the. Yeah, the origin of a word. So we. Someone asked us, we were in a restaurant, and they said, prego. Is it prego?

Lucy Di Rosa:  Oh, yes.

Marco Timpano:  Which is the way you say you're welcome. Or it's also the way you say if you were to open a door for someone, if you please, or go ahead. So it doesn't translate to your welcome. The etymology of the world of, uh, the word is actually based on the verb to pray, right? Uh, prego, which also means I pray. But we use it as the you're welcome or pray you, like the Old English pray you. So that was an etymology lesson that you and I sort of told the waiter at a restaurant we were at.


So are there any origins of words that you particularly love

And I remember that I said, I want to talk to Lucy about etymology when we. When we are on the podcast together. So are there any origins of words that you particularly love?

Lucy Di Rosa:  Okay, well, I can tell you in Italian, I can tell you that I love the word and I don't know the etymology, and maybe people can tweet me about it, and I should know because I studied Italian. But there's an expression to say I don't know in Italian. In Italian, you say, non loso, non loso. I don't know, but there's, uh, an expression you can use which is bo, Right. Which I guess you can spell B, O, H. It's mainly more like a spoken thing.

Marco Timpano:  Right.

Lucy Di Rosa:  And I find it fascinating. And it's. It's three letters. It's one syllable. I don't know the etymology, but it's extremely expressive in Italian. And it can also convey certain feelings. Like, I. It comes to me spontaneously, sometimes even like reading about social problems in our society. And the word that comes to me is bo, like I don't know.

Marco Timpano:  I don't know. I don't have a clue. It's often followed by a shrug of the shoulders, I find, because I know when I say it, it's usually like with a, with a shrugged shoulder. What's interesting is you said it's spelled B O H. I think the Italian spelling of it would be bho, like bo, Like o. I have. Right, you have that sound for bo because it's in, in Italian, the H, which is a modifier that doesn't really make an h sound, modifies, um, the O. And I think it would be spelled B H O. Or am I wrong? Or in Italian they spell it B

Lucy Di Rosa:  O, H. I don't know. But if you. I, I think it's usually. Oh, but you know what's interesting and raises a question in my mind about what you're bringing up is that if you've seen that somewhere or if that's like a sense that you have about a, uh, possible spelling of the word, maybe there's etymology in that.

Marco Timpano:  Oh, that's a good, yeah, that's a good deduction.

Lucy Di Rosa:  Yeah. Apostrophe. Ho. Which is. I have.

Marco Timpano:  You have?

Lucy Di Rosa:  Oh, like.

Marco Timpano:  Oh, yeah. Ho. Yeah, I have.

Lucy Di Rosa:  So that's really interesting. Uh, well, we'll have to look that up.

Marco Timpano:  I know the etymology of my last name. Tim Pano means drum. And so for years as a child, my dad used to say to us, you know, it's a Roman last name. And my dad comes from a small little town in southern Italy, so in Calabria. And so we always would joke and say, oh, you just want it to be this ancient word, right? This old word from Rome. You want it, basically, I said, you want it to have ties to Roman ties, just like everyone says, you know, in a past life they were a prince or a princess or a queen. Everybody wants that. When in fact the majority of things would be very ordinary. So we would often roll our eyes when my dad would say that. So one day I went and looked up, you know, you can look up what your last name means. So I went to a place and it was very legitimate. It was in a mall. You pay $5 and they print it out. So went there, I said, tim panel. They put it in, prints out this card with a cool looking crest of some sort. The first thing it says of Roman origin, Timpano drum. And supposedly my last name means that I come from a line of people who drummed into war. You know, when you see those paintings of, yes, drummers, I guess, drumming the beat for the soldiers to march to. So either one of my ancestors was one of those people, clearly one of the first killed in the line of war, or was a maker of drums or someone who made those drums. So that's the origin of my last name. So I always found that very.

Lucy Di Rosa:  Yeah, it's great. And I like the connection to performance. It's very much you. I think that that's very appropriate. That's great.

Marco Timpano:  And yet I don't play the drums well.

Lucy Di Rosa:  But, you know. But you're a performer.

Marco Timpano:  There you go. What's the. What's the origin of your last name?

Lucy Di Rosa:  Well, I, I just wonder. So my last name is D. Rosa. Right. It's two words. So, you know, I wonder, is, was Rosa a person? Was it a family? I don't know, but it's just of Rosa of rose. Um, so, you know, I don't know my father, I come from a long line of, like, humble families in southern Italy, in Naples. Um, I don't know specifically, but it. It means of rose.

Marco Timpano:  Of rose.

Lucy Di Rosa:  Yeah.

Marco Timpano:  Well. And you're lovely like a rose. So it makes total sense. Um, we.


Tell me about what brought you to Italian cinema

The movie that I, I did the translation for was an Italian film. And I know that we both share love for film and in particular Italian films. So I wanted to ask you. Tell me about what brought you to Italian cinema.

Lucy Di Rosa:  Yes. So when I was, uh. I have. I have a degree in Italian and English, a BA In Italian and English. And when I was sort of in the later years of my BA Doing my Italian courses, I had a professor who later became my thesis supervisor when I did graduate work, who was a film professor. And she recommended that I take a, uh, film course in neorealism. And so I did. And I found the films in some ways really off putting. And they're films that I had never seen before. And just, um. And, and, and later I realized also really brave because up until that point in, you know, Italy was under fascism and Mussolini really was in charge of the films and the content in ways that I think the industry still feels today in some ways. Yeah. Like, for example, you know, he had to have all Italian content, so any foreign films that came in, he dubbed into Italian. And I think even today, Italians are really like master dubbers into Italian. And you notice that a lot. It's much easier to see a foreign film that's been dubbed into Italian. Whereas here, for example, we see things with subtitles. I think it's still an influence of that era. But in any case, uh, neorealism really struck me because for the first time, directors kind of took their lives into their hands, and they put dark aspects of Italy on the screen. And at first, really in fascism. The director. I did my PhD thesis on Lukino Visconti. He made a film, uh, that was released in the early 40s, you know, and it was, um. Basically, it was dark. It was showing an affair between a man and a woman. And, uh, the son of Mussolini, Vittorio, was at the first screening of this film, and he stood up outraged, saying, this is not Italy.

Marco Timpano:  Wow.

Lucy Di Rosa:  You know, and so it really was brave. And, like, Rossellini.

Marco Timpano:  What was the name of that?

Lucy Di Rosa:  Yeah, so that was. Oh, and it was actually based on the Postman Always Rings Twice.

Marco Timpano:  Okay.

Lucy Di Rosa:  Yeah. And kind of like down and out, like characters with dirty T shirts, and just. Italians weren't used to seeing that.

Marco Timpano:  Right.

Lucy Di Rosa:  And so it really was kind of a shocking thing.

Marco Timpano:  And then you were saying something about.

Lucy Di Rosa:  Yeah, so he, you know, he shot Rome Open City. He bought the film reels on the black market. He shot around rubble. You know, they were just doing things with no resources, nothing. At the end of the war when Italy was just ruined, and they, you know, they made art. It was incredible.

Marco Timpano:  Rome Open City is one of my favorite films of all time. And, uh, it stars Anna Magnani, who was a fantastic Italian actor, and she was just so captivating on screen. But have you ever seen. There was a film with Christopher Walken that shows the making of Rome Open Set City?

Lucy Di Rosa:  I don't think I've seen that, Marco.

Marco Timpano:  It's an Italian film, but Christopher Walken plays one of the American, uh, soldiers in it. And it's outstanding to see what they did to get that film made, because they filmed it during, uh, the German occupation of Europe.

Lucy Di Rosa:  Yeah. Shocking.

Marco Timpano:  It's shocking because if you ever see that film and the content and what's happening in that film, and knowing that it's being filmed, Filmed at the same time that these atrocities are happening. It's incredible. And so they would pilfer electricity from the Nazis while they were filming it. Um, at night, they would plug in. So it's a. If you get the chance to see. And I don't. I'm sorry, I don't know the name of this. This movie of the week, I believe it was. Um, But I'm sure if you look up Christopher Walken in Rome Open City, it'll give you a link to it, but definitely check it out.

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Bill Verge talks about his eclectic tastes in cinema

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Lucy Di Rosa:  So that's how I got interested in it. Of course, that's such a specific, uh, sort of moment in time for Italian cinema. But I think it was a defining moment. And for me, neorealism was the doorway into sort of this love of Italian cinema. And then in graduate school, I became interested in again, this director, Luchino Visconti. He was, first of all, he was a really interesting guy. He did a lot of theater, uh, when he was alive, and opera, and then he made feature films. And he loved literature. And, you know, and I was studying mainly literature, and he took many literary pieces from around the world, and many of his films are based on those. And that's what I wrote about, uh, in my thesis dissertation. And I think to an extent, I always like movies. I remember, you know, being 12 years old and sneaking away to the mall that was farther away. You know, this is the era of, like, Star wars and the Empire Strikes Back, right? And like going to the movies. And then all through high school, the Breakfast, I'm dating myself, the breakfast club, the 80s. So I've always loved it. But I think seeing international cinema through first primarily through Italian cinema and then kind of expanding out from there, that's kind of how it started.

Marco Timpano:  So Italian cinema brought you to other, um, foreign film. Foreign, um, cinema. Would that be fair to say?

Lucy Di Rosa:  I would say that's probably fair, yeah. Um, you know, and I don't. Whenever I'm asked like, so who are your favorite directors? I am always a little bit like a deer in the headlights. Where I don't really. Where it's like, oh, no, I don't know. But, you know, there's so many cool things by, like, Kurosawa just did like, all kinds of really interesting and distinct work. And who else can I say, you know, French film? I'm not, I don't want to say I'm not a huge fan of. But I feel like I understand it a little bit less and maybe I know it a little bit less. I mean, I like American cinema. I like independent films from all over the world. Um, yeah, it's really a variety. I'm all. And I also really love documentaries.

Marco Timpano:  Okay.

Lucy Di Rosa:  I think there's a lot of drama in a good documentary, good storytelling, and it's, it's very fascinating to me. But what about you, Marco? What's your. Tell me a little bit about your taste in cinema. What are.

Marco Timpano:  You know, it's interesting because I've always had a love for the movies, and so I have this sort of, um, I love American films. I love the big budget, big blockbuster films. I like the sort of nitty gritty, smaller, independent, uh, American film. And I've always loved that. And then I got into Italian, uh, cinema and it opened up a huge door to other foreign cinema. And so I became a huge Elmar d' Ovar fan.

Lucy Di Rosa:  Oh, yes.

Marco Timpano:  And so I love his work from Women on the Verge of Nervous Breakdown, which I think is a. Hilarious. Like some of his earlier work is just so hilarious. Right. And just some of the things he does in those films and, and his strong portrayal of women. I love seeing strong female characters in film. And hence, uh, Roma Citta Aperta or Rome Open City is one of my favorite films. Um, but it, it, when you get into foreign, Foreign films, it really opens up the world to you. And as someone who loves to travel, um, and you can't be everywhere, but you can certainly be there when you're immersed in a film and you can go back in time to, you know, rome of the 40s or Paris of the 20s or futuristic Spain, whatever the case might. May be. Love, um, seen those. I've really gotten into documentaries thanks to, uh, platforms like Netflix that allow you to really see films that end. Or documentaries that end up in the theater for such A short period of time that they're often gone. And you have. You have to sort of find avenues to find it on television, but with. With platforms like Netflix and all those other online, um, channels or whatever you want to call it, it opens that up for you and you end up seeing, or I end up seeing documentaries that I never thought I would want to see or I would never think that I just love.

Lucy Di Rosa:  Yeah, I agree. And if I may say, last week when we were at the Toronto Film Festival, um, one of the films that I saw was by Werner Herzog, who's a German, primarily documentary filmmaker. And. Wow. So. And it was about volcanoes.

Marco Timpano:  Okay.

Lucy Di Rosa:  And it was so weird and quirky and also scary. You know, like he's standing at the mouth of an active volcano. He's talking to people who believe in the gods of the volcano. And then he went to North Korea, where there's a dormant volcano that's actually very important for the. The creation of North Korea three generations ago. And he. He was able to go down into the cities and see. See how this site of the volcano is kind of. It's central to, like, the imagery of the leader of North Korea of all three generations. Right. And, uh, just so quirky and interesting and so, uh, so many emotions and. And also so much science and so much culture and sort of magic.


One of my favorite documentaries about the World Cup had no narrative

And so that all comes from, you know, the volcano, which is. I don't. I mean, I guess it is exciting, but you wouldn't think of, like, the vastness of, like, the topics.

Marco Timpano:  Right. Anyway, like, watching a whole film just on volcanoes seems exactly. Almost like, what. What are you going to cover?

Lucy Di Rosa:  Exactly.

Marco Timpano:  But then you sit there and you watch and you're like, wow, what a fascinating world I've been immersed in.

Lucy Di Rosa:  Yeah, yeah. Which is also in part down to the filmmaker, because he's really quirky and one of. One of a kind. I think he's a really interesting guy and, And a pure artist. You know, he's a fearless person and he pursues a story from really interesting and unusual angles, and it's really. It's really fun.

Marco Timpano:  I once saw a documentary that had no, I don't want to say no narrative. It had no narration, it had no voice other than the raw emotion. So what they did was during the World cup, they filmed different people in different countries watching the final game. So it was Brazil. You saw, um, a whole family watching the game. And I think it was an, uh. Oh, I forget who was playing. I want to say Italy, Germany for the finals. Then they went to An Italian bar, and they filmed. And so the camera was at the perspective of where the, um, television set would be.

Lucy Di Rosa:  Right.

Marco Timpano:  So the camera was watching the people watch the film. And they would just cut between the different countries watching the film and their emotions as goals m were being missed or goals were being scored. And the final moment where one. One group of people are, like, just devastated and one group of people are celebrating. And it was a fantastic film with.

Lucy Di Rosa:  No.

Marco Timpano:  You watch the narrow. The narrative by just watching the emotions. And what I loved in particular about that documentary was that it was one that everyone who watched it could appreciate because it didn't require language for you to enjoy it. That's one of my favorite documentaries I've ever seen.

Lucy Di Rosa:  It's interesting. It also kind of, uh, can show one of the things. I'm not a huge sports fan, but I can get really into it because, again, there's, like, so much drama. And I think a film like that really shows. It shows the humanity of the people responding to what's going on on the field. That's really cool.


Let me ask you, what is the first film you recall seeing at the theater

Marco Timpano:  Let me ask you, what is the first film you recall seeing at the theater without your folks being there? So the first film you went to see with either a friend or.

Lucy Di Rosa:  Yeah. So it's interesting because I don't the. I really do distinctly remember in middle school, going to Fairview Mall in Willowdale, Ontario.

Marco Timpano:  There's no other place.

Lucy Di Rosa:  And not remembering what any of those movies are. And I remember, like, it really, Like, I didn't see any of these, but Animal House was playing there. And so, like, I don't remember. The one film that I do remember going to see the first time was, uh, for your Eyes Only, the James Bond film.

Marco Timpano:  Yes, I remember seeing. I remember being at the movies when that was. I distinctly remember seeing the movie poster for that. But I was with my family when we were to go see something else. But the first film I ever saw was with my best friend, whose name happened to be Marco at the time. So Marco. And Marco went to go see the Muppet Movie.

>> Nidhi Khanna: Oh.

Marco Timpano:  And I was young, I know that his parents sort of just dropped us off and said they would pick us up. And it was. I remember being really frightened to see a movie by myself as a kid, even though I was there with my best friend, because it was dark and we were alone and whatnot. But then once we sat and we watched the film, nothing else around us sort of mattered, and we had a great time. But I distinctly remember that moment, and I'm wondering if it's a key moment in my life that brought me to love the film because it was so, so dramatic in a way.

Lucy Di Rosa:  Yeah. And it really is. And by the way, I think you were really, really young, because I remember being young when that came out and you're a little bit younger than I am. So there is. You know, I've really fallen out of the habit of going to the movies. Like last week, seeing movie after movie at the film festival was kind of an exception. I'm used to Netflix right now. I'm used to. I have so many other or subscriptions to things. There is something so magical about sitting in the dark, staring at a big screen with other people and with strangers. Right. And you're having this common experience together. Um, you know, I hope that as a society we can find a way to keep doing that. It seems like it's not. We are kind of moving a little bit away from that. But there is something magical about having that common experience in the dark with a group of people.

Marco Timpano:  There's something about going to see a comedic film when the. When the movie theater is packed and you're with all these people around you and everyone starts to laugh and because laughter is so infectious and there's just something so, uh, it makes the enjoyment of that film so much richer. And in fact, when we go see a comedy in the film, film and theater happens to be empty. The experience isn't as rich as when you are going to see a great comedy and the movie is packed.

Lucy Di Rosa:  Yes. I think some genres are like. I think not a huge fan of horror movies, but it's all. That's also. It's also the case for scary films. Right.

Marco Timpano:  Without a doubt.

Lucy Di Rosa:  The response to suspense, the response to the soundtrack, it just doesn't feel the same if you're experiencing alone or if the theater is not full. It's definitely. There's something about that common experience.

Marco Timpano:  So bringing it all the way back to the beginning and bringing it and wrapping things up here.


In Italian, a horn film is called giallo. Do you know why it's called that

In Italian, a horn film is called giallo. Do you know why it's called that? Giallo means yellow in Italian. And that's what they call their horror films.

Lucy Di Rosa:  Yeah, it's. Well, it's. It's like a. It's all jalo.

Marco Timpano:  See, I don't know the origin then.

Lucy Di Rosa:  I do know. I think there were. I don't know when. But in the old days, like even when I was a kid, it's. It's more. Jalo is more kind of linked to. Also like detective stories. There used to be like Series, I'm pretty sure. Like, even when I was a kid, I. I was born in Italy, so when I was a kid, I remember there were series of detective books and the covers were yellow. They were Sears and they were yellow. And so I think it actually comes from that. From the color of the covers of these genre books.

Marco Timpano:  Thriller type.

Lucy Di Rosa:  Yeah.

Marco Timpano:  And then it got translated or got. It got carried over to horror.

Lucy Di Rosa:  M. Film.

Marco Timpano:  To film.

Lucy Di Rosa:  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Marco Timpano:  Uh, so does it unfilm jalo, which means a yellow film? Directly translated, does that mean a horror film film or a mystery thriller?

Lucy Di Rosa:  It's more like a. Yeah. Which in English, at least for a period of time, we would call noir.

>> Nidhi Khanna: Right.

Lucy Di Rosa:  I think it's more like that.

Marco Timpano:  Oh, see, I was. I always thought jalo was for, uh, film.

Lucy Di Rosa:  You know, there might be in Italian, because there's also that kind of link to Dario Argento, who's like a master of horror in Italian. He's like the king of horror films. There was, like, a giallo aspect to his work, so I think maybe that's the association. But, yeah, I'm pretty sure that the origin of that term comes from this connection to these fiction series with yellow covers.

Marco Timpano:  Fantastic. Well, Lucy, thank you so much. We end up at the end of our podcast, going back to the beginning with etymology and Italian cinema, so I want to thank you for that. You can follow Lucy on TwitterucyBrooklyn, but it's spelled B, K, L, Y, N. Yes. So Lucy. And you can find her on Instagram there as well. Lucy, thank you so much for being our guest today.

Lucy Di Rosa:  Thank you, Marco.

Marco Timpano:  That was so much fun, as always. The Insomnia Project is produced by Drumcast Productions, and this episode is recorded in Brooklyn, New York.