The Boring Canadian Prime Minister Debate | Drift Off with Cozy, Meandering Talk

Looking for a sleep podcast to fall asleep fast, reduce anxiety, and quiet an overactive mind? This calming episode of The Insomnia Project is designed for insomnia relief, stress reduction, and gentle nighttime unwinding through slow, soothing conversation.Marco Timpano and Nidhi Khanna explore Canadian history through a relaxed and lightly humorous discussion comparing two former prime ministers, Alexander Mackenzie and Mackenzie Bowell. This low-stimulation episode offers an easygoing look at lesser-known historical figures, perfect for bedtime listening.
With soft-spoken storytelling and a gentle, meandering pace, the conversation reflects on quiet moments in political history while keeping the tone calm and accessible. The light “Battle of the Mackenzies” adds a playful element without disrupting the soothing rhythm, helping ease racing thoughts and promote relaxation.
Whether you’re searching for a sleep podcast for insomnia, calming background noise while you work, or a gentle way to unwind at the end of the day, The Insomnia Project offers a comforting, reliable escape.

Episode 16: Prime Ministerial Showdown | A Sleep-Inducing Debate on Boredom
Marco Timpano: Welcome to the Insomnia Project. Sit back, relax and listen as we have a conversation about the mundane. One thing that we strive for, as we strive that our conversation will be less than fascinating so that you can just feel free to drift off. I want to thank you for joining us. We hope that you will listen and sweep. Not sweep, listen and sleep. But, we hope you sweep as well, wouldn't you say?
Nidhi Khanna: I. People can sweep. This is a really good podcast for sweeping in household chores, I think.
Marco Timpano: Also tweet us if you're gonna sweep, tweet and sweep and sleep, listen and sleep.
Marco Timpano asks listeners to pick the most boring Canadian prime minister
I'm your host, Marco Timpano, who seems a little tongue tied today.
Nidhi Khanna: And I am your co host, Nidhi Khanna. Marco, I was looking up, a few facts and figures about as,
Marco Timpano: you do for our podcast.
Nidhi Khanna: I do, I do, about a Canadian prime minister from back in the day, shall we say. And I was adamant that the Canadian prime minister that I picked was one of the most boring or the most boring in Canadian history. To which you retorted, if I may say so, of course, with, a challenge that the Canadian prime minister that you had on your mind was actually more boring than the one that I had.
Marco Timpano: And I picked mine randomly. I was just like, you know, we know certain prime ministers, but who was the fifth prime minister? I couldn't list you in order the different prime ministers of Canada, so I looked up the fifth prime minister of Canada and I said, oh, Nidhi, this dude is boring. So we decided to have our very first Canadian prime minister off.
Nidhi Khanna: So who was the prime minister you picked up?
Marco Timpano: So I'm going to invite our listeners to tweet who they think Was the most boring prime minister from the two that we selected. Or if they have their own boring prime minister. My prime minister, Canadian prime minister, is the honourable sir mackenzie. Bowell. Or Bowell.
Nidhi Khanna: And mine is Alexander, Mackenzie. So I guess if we were to do this in true debate fashion, Be it resolved.
Marco Timpano: Oh, I like where this is going.
Nidhi Khanna: That Alexander Mackenzie was a more boring Canadian prime minister than sir mackenzie.
Marco Timpano: How would you say this? Bowl.
Nidhi Khanna: Bowel.
Marco Timpano: Bowel.
Nidhi Khanna: Bowel. Bowel sounds bad.
Marco Timpano: Bowl sounds bad.
Nidhi Khanna: I'd feel bad for him if it was bad.
Marco Timpano: I say bowl. It's B O D W E L L. Bowel. I'm gonna say bowel and give him like the benefit of the doubt.
Nidhi Khanna: Sounds good.
Marco Timpano: So my prime minister was prime minister from December 21, 1894 to April 27, 1896. And he was the fifth prime minister.
Nidhi Khanna: Okay, so if we're gonna go that
Marco Timpano: way just to see who goes first is what I was thinking.
Nidhi Khanna: Oh, I see. Okay. mine was prime minister from 1874
Marco Timpano: to 1878, so you go first because he was prime minister before my guy was.
Nidhi Khanna: Okay, so I'm just gonna go start with a very brief couple of facts.
Marco Timpano: And I'm gonna be looking at wikipedia for my facts.
Nidhi Khanna: Great. I am gonna be looking at various sources, starting with vice.
Marco Timpano: It seems like you've dropped a gauntlet on that. Okay, great.
Nidhi Khanna: so Alexander Mackenzie was a stone mason by train.
Marco Timpano: Oh, that's so funny. Because sir Mackenzie, Bowell, or bowell was also a mason. But I'll get to my guy.
Nidhi Khanna: Okay. And he carried.
Marco Timpano: He, was a freemason. Sorry, a freemason.
Nidhi Khanna: Okay. Mine was a stone mason and carried all his life the no nonsense, straight shooting attitude of a good working class 19th century Protestant. Oh, he also looks like the man, the old man from home alone.
Marco Timpano: Really?
Nidhi Khanna: He does.
Marco Timpano: My guy, Sir Mackenzie Bowell was an English born Canadian politician and he served as the fifth prime minister of Canada. He was born in Ricking hall, England. Do you know where that is, nitty?
Nidhi Khanna: No, I don't.
Marco Timpano: Neither do I. And in 1832, his family immigrated to belleville, upper Canada at the time, which is now Belleville, Ontario. What can you tell me about Belleville?
Nidhi Khanna: Well, I can tell you that Belleville is on its way to Montreal. Because every time I drive to Montreal, I pass Belleville.
Marco Timpano: I can tell you that Belleville is where, the black diamond cheese factory is. And they have a fountain of orange water in front of their building that I want to say is some of the. Let's say the whey products from the cheddar they make. I'm guessing at that.
Nidhi Khanna: I'm just gonna say that obviously that was an exciting fact because Xena came running. My dog came running over, as one would.
Marco Timpano: Right.
Marco Cardona says Alexander McKenzie is a more boring prime minister
Nidhi Khanna: Well, with the mention of cheese. Yes. I am going to up your Bellevue reference.
Marco Timpano: Sure.
Nidhi Khanna: And let you know that Alexander MacKenzie immigrated in 1842 from Scotland.
Marco Timpano: Okay.
Nidhi Khanna: And he worked, as I said, as a stonemason and established himself as a building contractor in Sarnia, Ontario. Yes.
Marco Timpano: Good old Sarnia.
Nidhi Khanna: Yes, exactly. So I think Sarnia trumps Belleville because Belleville is still, like, more south, closer to Upper and lower Canada, I would say still on the trade route. Sarnia is a little bit further afield.
Marco Timpano: Doesn't Sarnia have, like, natural, resource money or didn't at one time? I know that Belleville is on the Bay of Quinty. And I also want to put this fun fact about Belleville. Lauren Ash, who's a great Canadian actor and a friend of mine, is from Belleville.
Nidhi Khanna: Well, see how interesting. Whereas the resolved that Alexander McKenzie is a more boring prime minister.
Marco Timpano: No, but this has nothing to do with the prime minister other than his birthplace or his immigra.
Nidhi Khanna: Immigra.
Marco Timpano: Place of immigration.
Nidhi Khanna: Listen, Marco, I'm gonna tell you right now, every fact counts. The facts that you choose to reveal argue for whatever case you're trying to make. So be careful of what facts you decide to run this debate with.
Marco Timpano: Don't fault me for knowing that Lauren Nash is from Belleville and she happens to be interesting, because I'm certain that there's interesting people from Sarnia who you just don't happen to know.
Nidhi Khanna: I'm not using them in my argument.
Marco Timpano: Then you're just giving a base, a basic argument.
Nidhi Khanna: And that's not because it's boring. So I'm also gonna say. Well, actually, okay, this is a little bit interesting. Pretty much the most interesting fact you're gonna find with Alexander Mitchell MacKenzie. He was the first, Liberal prime minister.
Marco Timpano: Oh, well, there you go. My prime minister was Conservative, and he held his seat for the Conservatives when they lost the election in January 1874 in the wake of the Pacific scandal. And later that year, he was.
Nidhi Khanna: That sounds interesting. What is the Persian fix?
Marco Timpano: Well, I'll look it up in just a second, but, he was instrumental in having Louis Royal expelled from the House.
Nidhi Khanna: These are all interesting facts. You don't understand this debate, do you?
Marco Timpano: You. You don't. You need to go on Wikipedia, because this site here is just giving you such a truncated version of your. Your prime minister that it's not fair.
Nidhi Khanna: All right, if, that's the way
Marco Timpano: you want to play it while you're doing that. The Pacific scandal was a political scandal in Canada involving allegations of bribes being accepted by 150 members the Conservative government, in the attempts of private interest to influence the bidding for a national rail contract. So it had to deal with the rail and bribes. Nitty.
Nidhi Khanna: That's actually really interesting.
Marco Timpano: Well, you may say so.
Nidhi Khanna: bribes are not like scandal. He's scandalous. That's pretty.
Marco Timpano: In 1892, he became minister of Militia and Defense.
Nidhi Khanna: Oh, see? Minister militia.
Marco Timpano: Well, let's not. Let's not. Let's not make this too exciting, okay? Because I'm. I'm just trying to. I don't think he was Prime Minister yet when all this happened. So too, this is. This is his early political life, so you can't judge him on this because.
As Prime Minister, Bowell faced the Manitoba School question
Let's talk about when he became prime minister. In December of 1894, it was because Prime Minister Sir John Spar. Sorry. Sir John Sparrow. David Thompson, died suddenly. And Bowell, as the most senior cabinet member, was appointed in Thompson's seat by the Governor General. And then Bowell thus became the second of just two Canadian Prime Minister after John Abbott, to hold that office while serving in the Senate rather than the House of Commons. Are, you awake? Did you hear that?
Nidhi Khanna: Did he have any military service?
Marco Timpano: No. Did yours? Because military service is exciting.
Nidhi Khanna: Well, he was only a major.
Marco Timpano: You can't only be a major. A major is a pretty awesome, title to have.
Nidhi Khanna: Is it really?
Marco Timpano: Have you ever seen Major, Dad? I rest my case. As Prime Minister, Bowell faced the Manitoba School question.
Nidhi Khanna: Which was what? Tell me more about the Manitoba school question.
Marco Timpano: In 1890, Manitoba had abolished public funding for denominational schools, both Catholic and Protestant, which many thought was contrary to the provisions made for denominational schools. It's funny, Nidhi, that this is a debate, even in 1890 continues to be a debate now in Canada. However, in a court challenge, the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council held that Manitoba's, abolition of public funding for denominational schools was consistent with the Manitoba act provision. So there you go. There you go.
Nidhi Khanna: Okay, so, let's.
Alexander Mackenzie was the most boring prime minister in Canada
Let's talk a bit about. I don't know if he was even a sir. There's not even an honorable. I'm assuming there's an honorable MacKenzie, but it doesn't say here in this article. but when. Oh, look, okay. When the McDonald government fell due to The Pacific scandal.
Marco Timpano: Oh, so you've got a connection to the Pacific scandal.
Nidhi Khanna: In 1873, the governor general, Lord Dufferin.
Marco Timpano: And it's funny because you live. We're actually recording this just off Dufferin Street.
Nidhi Khanna: That's right. called upon Mackenzie, who had been chosen as the leader of the Liberal Party a few months earlier, to form a new government. And Mackenzie formed a government and then asked the Governor General to call an election. So he was so boring that he did not even wait to call an election after being appointed Prime Minister. That's how good he was. And then he won the election and he remained prime minister for the next four years.
Marco Timpano: Wow, that's impressive. Bowel and his predecessors struggle to solve the Manitoba question, which at that time divided the country. And even Bowel's own cabinet was divided because of this Nidhi. And then this poor sir Bowel was further hampered by his handling of the issue by his own. Get this indecisiveness. So, you know, that just shows you what kind of gentleman this person was. And his inability as a senator to take part in debates in the House of Commons because Bowell backed legislation already drafted that would have forced Manitoba to restore its Catholic schools, but then postponed it due to opposition within his own cabinet.
Nidhi Khanna: See, he was like at the forefront of a lot of controversy. Whereas Alexander Mackenzie, you know, it was unusual for a man of Mackenzie's humble origins to attain a position such as Prime Minister. And usually it was only given. It was something that was usually given to someone who was a little bit more privileged in society. And so Lord Dufferin, who as I said, was the Governor General at the time.
Marco Timpano: Right.
Nidhi Khanna: He expressed some early misgivings about a stain stonemason taking over the government.
Marco Timpano: But why would he have misgivings? Firstone me, because I get.
Nidhi Khanna: I'm assuming he's like, ah, he's not of high society. However, okay, this is how boring Alexander Mackenzie is is that upon meeting Mackenzie, Lord Dufferin revised his opinions and said,
Marco Timpano: and I quote, oh, here we go.
Nidhi Khanna: However narrow and inexperienced Mackenzie might be, I imagine he is thoroughly upright, well principled and well meaning man. Which means he is so even keel and so non scandalous that he was able to be the most boring prime minister in Canada.
Marco Timpano: Well, I doubt that, because I will say this, that while the government was in crisis over this Manitoba question, it was resolved in everything returned to normal when six of the ministers were reinstated by the leadership and then effectively held by Charles Tupper, who had joined the cabinet at the same time filling the Seventh place Tupper, who had been the Canadian High Commissioner to the United Kingdom, had been recalled by the plotters to replace.
Nidhi Khanna: These are all interesting facts.
Marco Timpano: Well, I don't know. Like, these are all interesting. I think you're Lord Dufferin. that whole Lord Dufferin stuff is pretty great. What happened later in life with your. Your Prime Minister?
Nidhi Khanna: Later in life? Like after. After.
Marco Timpano: After he became Prime Minister, did he do anything interesting? What was his legacy? Sure. What was his legacy? Ah. Ah.
Nidhi Khanna: A monument is dedicated to his tomb in Lakeview Cemetery, Sarnia.
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M. Bowell died of pneumonia in 1917 at the age of 93
Nidhi Khanna: Oh, okay, this one's interesting. And I know you'll like this because this is actually. So he was honorable. Like, an honorable. He obviously had a title at the end, but, honorable. Alexander MacKenzie by Lauren Harris.
Marco Timpano: Oh. One of my favorite painters now hangs
Nidhi Khanna: at the McKenzie Building, the Royal Military College of Canada.
Marco Timpano: Well, there you go. So one of my favorite artists painted a picture of him. So I think that's pretty awesome.
Nidhi Khanna: That's it?
Marco Timpano: Pretty awesome.
Nidhi Khanna: That's his legacy. Those two pieces of art? Well, no, one is more like a, monument dedicated to his tomb and a piece of art that was his legacy.
Marco Timpano: Well, I don't see anything here that states that. There is a bust of this dude. Prime Minister Bowell. Bowell stayed in the Senate after his prime ministership and served as his party's leader until 1906. And afterwards as a plain senator until his death at 94. What did he die of? Nitty, you might ask. Any guesses?
Nidhi Khanna: I am gonna say. What year did he die?
Marco Timpano: He died. So he was. He died on December 10, 1917 at the age of 93. I stand corrected.
Nidhi Khanna: Okay, 19. Sorry. 1917. Oh, 1917. He died, I bet. Of like I'm gonna say something, you
Marco Timpano: know,
Nidhi Khanna: interesting about the time. Probably like Spanish flu.
Marco Timpano: No, he died of a broken heart.
Nidhi Khanna: Well, that's interesting.
Marco Timpano: No, he actually didn't. He died of pneumonia in Belleville, 17 days short of his 94th birthday. And guess where he's buried? In Belleville, in the Belleville cemetery. His funeral was attended by a full complement of the Orange Order because he was an Orangeman, but not by any current or formally elected members of the government. That's how boring he was. A former prime minister. None of the current leadership or politicians showed up at his funeral.
Nidhi Khanna: That's true of Alexander Mackenzie as well.
Marco Timpano: Well, don't try.
Nidhi Khanna: The government showed up at his funeral.
Marco Timpano: Don't try to steal my guys.
Nidhi Khanna: But wait, no one showed up. And even though he died while he was leader of the opposition, so that's how boring he was, he was still a sitting member of parliament.
Marco Timpano: I think that shows how unliked he was, not necessarily how boring he was. I will say this, that, Bowels descendants live in Hertfordshire, England. Have you ever been there?
Nidhi Khanna: I have not.
Marco Timpano: And some of them live in Ontario, Canada.
Nidhi Khanna: Well, look at that.
Marco Timpano: In, their 1998 study of the Canadian prime ministers up through Jean Chretien, who was prime minister at the time, J.L. granadstein and Norman Hillmer found that a survey of Canadian historians ranked M. Bowell 19th out of the 20 prime ministers up until then. So he was ranked second last. I should find out who was. Hm. Who was marked last.
Nidhi Khanna: So.
Marco Timpano: So that we can. We can.
Nidhi Khanna: That's good. Alexander MacKenzie was ranked 11th. Oh, 11th place.
Marco Timpano: Just in that same. In that same study. In that same.
Nidhi Khanna: Yes.
Marco Timpano: Okay, so you found that out. Okay.
Nidhi Khanna: However, I, think he was number 11 because he did nothing. He did nothing bad and he did nothing good. He kind of just was status quo. So that's why he's right in the middle.
Marco Timpano: Well, I'll just say this. Let the listeners decide who was more boring. But I want to.
Sir John Sparrow was the fourth Prime Minister of Canada
I want to look into this Sparrow dude, because isn't that the name of the character that, Is. Yeah. Is that. Is his name Jack Sparrow? Yeah, but isn't John.
Nidhi Khanna: but it's Sir John Sparrow. David Thompson.
Marco Timpano: Right, but.
Nidhi Khanna: So he's got two names.
Marco Timpano: I know, but isn't Jack a diminutive of John? Is it. Is it Jack?
Nidhi Khanna: Jack, John? No, I think Jack is like Jackson or. Well, I don't.
Marco Timpano: Can it. Can a John not be a Jack?
Nidhi Khanna: That's pretty. Like, are we that lazy with.
Marco Timpano: I don't know. We need Jacks and Johns. I know my friend has a son named Jack, but his name is Jack. It was always Jack.
Nidhi Khanna: Right. Okay.
Marco Timpano: So, Jack, while you're looking that, up. John Sparrow was a Canadian lawyer, judge, politician, and university professor who served as the fourth Prime Minister of Canada. So he was clearly a prime minister before my dude. And he died in office on, December 12th. And how did he die, you might ask? In office? Heart attack. Age of 49.
Nidhi Khanna: It's a hard time.
Marco Timpano: Difficult man. It's hard to run a country.
Nidhi Khanna: Okay. The origins of ten nicknames. it can be Jack. It could be James as well.
Marco Timpano: Oh, yeah, it's James. I think I've always known it as James. I knew there was something about it that was. Didn't strike me. what is.
Nidhi Khanna: Oh, no, but Jack is. Why is Jack from John?
Marco Timpano: Yeah, why is Jack from John?
Nidhi Khanna: Oh, this is actually an interesting fact.
Marco Timpano: Okay.
Nidhi Khanna: The name Jack dates back to about, 1200, the year 1200, and was originally used as a generic name for peasants.
Marco Timpano: Oh.
Nidhi Khanna: Over time, Jack worked his way into words such as lumberjack and steeplejack. and John was once used as the generic name for English commoners and peasants like John Doe, which could be why Jack became the nickname for John. But the more likely explanation is that the Normans added, kin. this is very.
Marco Timpano: Now, this is getting a little complex.
Nidhi Khanna: Yeah.
Marco Timpano: Let me tell you this.
Nidhi Khanna: Tell me.
Marco Timpano: Going back to John Sparrow. Prime Minister John Sparrow. Despite having held, prime ministerial office, Prime Minister John Sparrow had little estate. So Parliament set up, a fund to support his widow and children. His only remaining descendants today is the Canadian politician Margaret Mitchell. Do you know who Margaret Mitchell is? No. she is part of the New Democratic Party, and she is a member of Parliament for Vancouver East. She held office from 79 to 93.
Nidhi Khanna: Wow. Look at that.
Marco Timpano: So there you go, why?
Nidhi Khanna: He has like five names that are all like, name names.
Marco Timpano: I think that was the custom of the time talking, of nicknames from actual names. Do you know where the name Peggy comes from? What the actual female name is?
Nidhi Khanna: I do. Margaret.
Marco Timpano: And we just talked about Margaret Mitchell. That's why came to mind.
Nidhi Khanna: Oh, look at that.
Marco Timpano: So does that mean Peggy's Cove is actually Margaret's Cove.
Nidhi Khanna: Oh,
Marco Timpano: But it's in Margaret's Bay, if I'm not mistaken. No.
Nidhi Khanna: That's why.
Marco Timpano: Interesting. Have you ever been to Peggy's Cove?
Nidhi Khanna: I haven't.
Marco Timpano: It's fantastic.
Nidhi Khanna: Is it really?
Marco Timpano: It's spectacular. I think it's the second most photographed site in Canada after.
St Margaret's Bay lighthouse gets its name from Niagara Falls
Do you want to guess?
Nidhi Khanna: Ooh, think of, think of after Niagara Falls.
Marco Timpano: You got it. I think that's what they, what they say there. Right. It's like, it's one of the sort of facts of it. But it's absolutely gorgeous. Gorgeous. And it is on St Margaret's Bay. So I think that's where it gets its name, from. And a beautiful lighthouse. You gotta go there is all I can say.
How do you feel about lighthouses? Lighthouses in general
How do you feel about lighthouses?
Nidhi Khanna: Lighthouses in general?
Marco Timpano: Lighthouse homes? I don't know what you'd call a. Plural lighthouse light.
Nidhi Khanna: Yeah, you're right. I don't, know. Light homes, lighthouses. Odd. I'm neither here nor there with them. I feel like they're very interesting structures and I would love to like go up one. But it's one of those things that's also kind of a relic because it's no longer really necessary, is it?
Marco Timpano: Like, I know, unfortunately, we did. We talked about things that were sort of a few episodes back, about things that are becoming obsolete. And I feel like certainly the lighthouse keeper.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Marco Timpano: There's few and far betweens because the lighthouses that are currently used are automated.
Nidhi Khanna: Right, Right.
Marco Timpano: Do you know that? So Peggy's Cove in St. Margaret's Bay. St. Margaret's Bay was named after Samuel de Champlain's mother, Marguerite. Did you know that?
Nidhi Khanna: I didn't know that. Look at you with all these facts.
Marco Timpano: Listen, it's what happens when you have a phone next to you and you're recording a podcast. You can just sort of look things up.
Nidhi Khanna: I think all of these interesting facts are actually a distraction, Marco, for the fact that I clearly won this debate.
Marco Timpano: I don't think it's something that you can determine. We need our listeners to tell us who in fact was the more boring Prime Minister, Sir Bowell Or, I mean,
Nidhi Khanna: look, Sir Bol even has such an interesting name that there's a million pronunciations.
Marco Timpano: It's only interesting because I don't know how to pronounce that name.
Nidhi Khanna: Whatever. It doesn't matter. Mine is, like, the most boring English. Like Scott, like Alexander Mackenzie. You can't get any more, like, plain
Marco Timpano: than that, I suppose. well, we can both say safely that there are no John Sparrow.
Nidhi Khanna: He obviously was a lot more interesting.
Did you do any reports on prime ministers when you were going to school
Marco Timpano: I think it's interesting that we don't know what prime minister is, though. I have to say, like, you know. I know. I know the last. Say five prime ministers. Five to seven prime ministers. Like, I remember the prime minister I remember as a child was Trudeau. So I remember from Pierre Trudeau up. I would guess I'd be able to do it, but before that, I think it was Pearson. I want to say. I, want to guess. And this is from having done a report on Lester B. Pearson back in, I want to say the fifth grade. Did you do any reports on prime ministers when you were going to school?
Nidhi Khanna: Oh, probably. I mean, we all had to do, I think, in grade 10 that, like, I think we have to do it in French. I can't even remember the history of kids. Canada. You know, in order to graduate high school, you have to do the history of Canada.
Marco Timpano: Sure.
Nidhi Khanna: Like the year. I think it's grade 10 or 10th grade that. That you have to do it in.
Marco Timpano: So I once had to portray Sir John A. MacDonald. Oh, yeah. It was this weird sort of gig I had where it was like, me and two friends. And one friend was Katherine Partrail, who wrote Roughing it in the Bush, one of Kenna's first novels or books. It wasn't a novel. It was about life living in the Canadian wilderness or first coming to Canada.
Nidhi Khanna: Okay.
Marco Timpano: And the other friend of mine was Cornelius Kriegoff, who was a Canadian painter, if I'm not mistaken. Oh, I hope he was a painter. I want to say he was a trapper and a painter. Anyways, so I got to play one of the Canada. I got to play Canada's first prime minister. We invite you to tweet us on who you think was the more boring prime minister. Mine, Sir Bowell, or Nimmies.
Nidhi Khanna: The honorable Alexander Mackenzie. Please tweet ustenandsleep because this is definitely something that Marco and I want settled by you, the listener. as always, we are recording in Toronto, and we're produced by John Cast Productions. So until the next time, we hope you listen and sleep.