In A Forager’s Delight – Season 9 Finale, Amanda and Marco close out the season with a softly winding conversation inspired by a recent mushroom foraging adventure. Guided by Peter Blush of Puck’s Plenty, they reflect on wandering through the woods, learning about wild mushrooms, and discovering how Peter found his path as a sought-after guide. The tone is curious but calm, as they explore the quiet magic of forests and the gentle thrill of spotting something unexpected beneath the leaves.
True to form, the episode drifts into playful hypotheticals — including whether King Charles and Queen Camilla might allow a little royal foraging — along with their familiar back-and-forth corrections and affectionate banter. A brief detour into the idea of a “not-so-soothing bath” adds a touch of mild chaos, balanced by steady humour and warmth.
As always, this calming podcast is intentionally unhurried, offering a relaxing conversation designed to help you fall asleep, ease anxiety, or quiet racing thoughts. It’s perfect for background listening at bedtime or during a middle-of-the-night wake-up. Let this lighthearted season finale guide you gently toward rest, one mundane musing at a time.

​A Forager's Delight Season 9 Finale 
(Original airdate: Nov 27, 2024)


Welcome to the Insomnia Project. This is the last episode for this season

Welcome to the Insomnia Project. Sit back, relax, and listen as we have a calm conversation, soothing conversation, a gentle conversation meant to help glide you into a place where you might drift off. Thank you for joining us. I'm your host, Marco Timpano.

Amanda: I'm Amanda Barker. I'm drinking. I don't know if you call it a soda or a pop, but anyways, I'm drinking right now. And on the tab of the can, I think it says, ha. Ha. Look at that.

Marco: Oh, yeah, it does.

Amanda: That's weird. Why would it say that?

Marco: I don't know.

Amanda: What are you trying to do?

Marco: Just get you a little bit closer to the mic. You were looking down and you were looking up.

Amanda: Okay, but you okay?

Marco: Yeah, I'm just trying to make sure the mic is right.

Amanda: Did you get that stomach noise? No, I didn't.

Marco: I didn't. This is the last episode for this season, Season nine. Amanda. Season nine's been a challenging season for us. I was not feeling great. There was a lot going on. So we. Our episodes didn't come out as consistent as we would like.

Amanda: Consistently.

Marco: Consistently?

Amanda: Yeah.

Marco: Well, you can't say consistent, not when

Amanda: you're using it as an adverb. Okay, well, it's modifying the action of coming out.

Marco: Okay, so the consistency wasn't there. Is that fair?

Amanda: No. Yeah, that's. That's the word as a noun.

Marco: Okay, so there you go. And, that's grammar time here on the Insomnia, project.

Amanda: Stay tuned. It's gonna get even better.

Marco: Well, Amanda, you know, you might be correcting me, but I'm gonna correct you in just a second.

Amanda: Oh, that's fun. So he has a fun look in his eyes, everybody. And I was just thinking his voice sounded different to me tonight.

Marco: Well, I was a little bit excited because.

Amanda: Oh, is that what it was?

Marco: I received a message from one of our listeners, if I can find it. it's here somewhere, but I'll get to in a moment.


It's Great British Bake off in our kitchen tonight. Including a very smoky situation

But in the meantime, what would you like to say to our listeners on this, the. The last episode for this season?

Amanda: I don't know. I feel like you have a bit of a frenetic energy. It's not kind of what I was hoping for. I was hoping to kind of glide into this for us to feel good about it. I was distracted by my. The tap of my pop can speaking to me, and then a weird voice thing you were doing that I didn't understand, and. And now you're searching through your phone. Did you find, You're gonna bomb me with this insult?

Marco: No, it's not an insult at all.

Amanda: Correction.

Marco: It's a correction. I. I also have caramel in the oven.

Amanda: It's. It's Great British Bake off in our kitchen tonight.

Marco: I know I made.

Amanda: Including a very smoky situation, but that was me, because some butter fell at the bottom to the bottom of the oven, and, folks, it made a lot of smoke. And Marco went upstairs to take a relaxing bath. And I said, oh, give me another 10, 15 minutes. I'll be finished dinner. And I was really excited about what I was making for dinner. I was frying chickpeas, which I've never done, and they were coming out really good.

Marco: And, so tasty.

Amanda: Yeah, coming out really goodly. I'm using good as a. Well, anyway, I don't know. Now I'm getting lost in my own grammar rules, which I don't really pay attention to. But anyway, I. And then I thought, oh, I'll put some naan in. I'll put some butter on the naan and some garlic on the naan. And then the butter fell to the bottom of the oven. And then a lot of smoke happened and the smoke alarm. And this is not relaxing. But anyway, Mirka was taking a bath and then I had to laugh because I. Then our smoke alarm. And our smoke alarm talks.

Marco: Yeah, it's a little bit odd.

Amanda: It'll. It'll warn you that it's going to be loud. It sort of like gives you a trigger warning and then it continues to tell you in a very calm voice why it's being so loud.

Marco: Yes. And then I had to get out of the bath.

Amanda: Woman's voice. It has a woman's voice.

Marco: And I had to get out of the bath and wave my towel around it like.

Amanda: Like it was a. Like you're at a hockey game, only completely naked.

Marco: All right. I don't think they need to know all that.

Amanda: Well, you got out of the bath. One can imagine.


If you'd like to leave us a five star review, we'd appreciate it

Marco: So speaking of. One can imagine.

Amanda: Here we go.

Marco: You might remember that, Diane, nb, left a wonderful review of our podcast and we were talking about it and remember what you said about NB New Brunswick? Right. Ah, well, before I get into that, if you'd like to leave us a five star review, we'd really appreciate it. Of course, if you haven't already, please do so. It's certainly, certainly helps our podcast, so

Amanda: we would love it. And then we'll talk about you in a good way.

Marco: Yeah.


Diane has an emoji of concerned face and then a winking face

so regarding the penultimate episode, Diane says.

Amanda: Oh, no, here it comes.

Marco: Diane, N.B. is from Quebec, not New Brunswick, but she has visited.

Amanda: Okay.

Marco: And then she has an emoji of like a concerned face and then one that's laughing so much that it's crying.

Amanda: Oh, no. Concerned.

Marco: No. I don't know if it's concerned face. It's that face. Maybe it's a quizzical face. Is that a quizzical face?

Amanda: I. I can't see anything. No, that's a. That's a. That's a winking face.

Marco: Oh, it's a winking face. Okay. But I can't see a concerned wink.

Amanda: Yeah. Okay. All right.

Marco: So there you.

Amanda: So that's how they wink in Quebec. Are you sure you want to be in on this joke?

Marco: There you go. So I just, I wanted to report that.

Amanda: Oh, okay. All right. I was, I was really on a, bit of an offensive there going. You had that look in your eye like, I can't wait to show you something. I'm like, oh, no. And he's gonna Do a, gotcha on the air insomnia project style.

Marco: Well, that's as, that's as good as it gets on a calm conversation though.

Amanda: I don't know. The milk bag controversy of 2020, that's

Marco: a season nine thing I want to just put behind us.


Peter and Marco went mushroom foraging for a friend on Sunday

But what we did do on Sunday was for our friend Trevor Martin, who's friend of the show, we went foraging for mushrooms.

Amanda: This is true.

Marco: And we were going to talk about it on today's episode.

Amanda: I didn't know that, but it makes perfect sense.

Marco: We had mentioned it on the last episode.

Amanda: Did we? I don't remember anything.

Marco: I know, but anyway, so we got up very early. Yeah, we got picked up by our good friends.

Amanda: Yeah, that was nice because it was quite a drive. And so they're like, we'll come and we'll pick you up at 7. So that's nice when you have a outing and they offered to drive and we did not fight them on that.

Marco: And then what was nice was the location for the mushrooms mushroom foraging changed. So it got us. It bought us an hour.

Amanda: It did, yeah.

Marco: So we were going to.

Amanda: We don't know where these mushrooms are going to pop up.

Marco: No. And so we were now stationed closer to Stratford, Ontario and.

Amanda: And the where we were going to forage of course was really related to the weather. And so I think they do some pre visits just to have a look to see what is likely growing at any given time. But it's really challenging to know we

Marco: were going to start in this one area and then if we needed to, we could move to Crown Land for more foraging.

Amanda: And Marco and I had a big discussion of what does that actually mean, Crown Land? And I don't know that I'm still completely clear on that one.

Marco: So the way I understand it is Crown Land is land that's owned by the government but that anyone can access. But it's not a public park or parkland. So if you wanted to hunt on that land you could. But you can't hunt on public parkland.

Amanda: I just figured all public land was Crown land, but I think Crown land. I think I said that weird, but I think I, I'm I think you must be right.

Marco: Well, because where we went first was more of a park. It was donated by a family to the area.

Amanda: And again, this is a Canadian, probably a Canadian British thing because obviously Crown.

Marco: Right, of course.

Amanda: Why would you call it Crown land? You know.

Marco: Right.

Amanda: But I mean it's. It feels like a bit of an antiquated Term here.

Marco: It certainly is. that said, I don't think

Amanda: King Charles is gonna be like, why

Marco: are you picking mushrooms on my land?

Amanda: It would be great. Can you imagine if we ran into Charles and Camilla foraging two hours outside of Toronto?

Marco: I think they'd be happy. Charles is very.

Amanda: I feel like they would absolutely be mushroom foragers. I feel like she would have like those, you know, she wears a lot of like. Well, in the crown. She did. The character of her wore a lot of hats. Yeah. But a lot of like dirty, dirty British clothes. Like.

Marco: Oh God, you know what you're gonna say.

Amanda: No, but like, like the queen, like they'll be like, let's go muck about. Yeah. You know, like that kind of thing. And they'll wear like rubber galoshes, like those hunter rubber boots. And like, you know, because they like riding horses and cleaning up after horses.

Marco: It certainly seems they, they much prefer not to be in the formal royal wear as much as they prefer to be in.

Amanda: Yeah. Like in Scotland at Balmoral. Right. Like they're up there and they're hunting in the mud and the moors and all that. Like, they love that. So I feel like Camilla and Charles would have been like really happy to go mushroom foraging.

Marco: Well, Charles is really into gardening and things. Right.

Amanda: And he's really into health and nature.

Marco: Right. So I think we had his permission. But the funny thing is we never ended up on Crown land. We ended up in this.

Amanda: I did not think we talked about with Charles and Camilla and go mushroom forging with us. I think it's a great topic.

Marco: So instead we went to this area, which was a conservation area.

Amanda: Yeah.

Marco: And we, we started to stroll in there.

Amanda: It's like a public path that you hike. Right. Nice hiking trail. Really.

Marco: So we had a guide who was great. His name was Peter is Peter. And Peter looked like a mushroom forager.

Amanda: I. Well that is really open to interpretation what a mushroom forager would look like.

Marco: I'll tell you what a mushroom forager would look like.

Amanda: Please do.

Marco: Like a professor of the forest. He had glasses, he had a cap.

Amanda: That's a perfect way to put it.

Marco: He had a sensible backpack.


Peter took our group out foraging for mushrooms and nothing more

Amanda: Yeah. Everything was sensible and good. If it gets a little wet, his

Marco: shoes weren't gonna slip.

Amanda: Yeah.

Marco: He had just what he needed to forage for mushrooms and nothing more.

Amanda: Right.

Marco: And nothing more. And so that's Peter in a nutshell. And Peter took our group, which was four of us, plus about 15 other people.

Marco: Who we did not know. So that was lovely. Too. And we went to the first patch of area under, softwood pines.

Amanda: And it was like a pine forest that was clearly. It had been planted there because they were a neat rows.

Marco: Yeah. Peter had explained that it was once an area that was growing trees. So it was a, tree. A tree.

Amanda: Tree farm.

Marco: A tree farm.

Amanda: Yeah.

Marco: But they weren't all soft wood. There was some hardwood, too, and there was some, deciduous trees as well. But we didn't go to those areas. We stuck mainly around the softwood pines, the pines.

Amanda: Yeah. And in amongst those pine needles, which was the forest floor, were mushrooms. Yeah.

Marco: And at first, we couldn't find any. Remember, he's like, this area is not that great. And as we're walking away from that area, doesn't Marco say to Peter, hey, what's this? And I pull out a gray trick mushroom.

Amanda: So they were the star of the day, Gray trick mushrooms. And then it was a gray trick bonanza.

Marco: And I should say that gray trick is spelled G R A I T R I C H.

Amanda: Is it?

Marco: Yeah, it is. It most certainly is.

Amanda: I think it's G R a Y.

Marco: G A R I, T R I.

Amanda: I know that you gave me the wrong spelling.

Marco: I know for a fact it's the right spelling because both me and Trevor, or Trevor and I were searching for it, and Trevor finally, finally found it with that spelling.

Amanda: Great. I'm looking.

Marco: a minute. Verifying. So I found the first beautiful example of a gray trick.

Amanda: Yes. So again, it's G R a Y, not I. You kept an, G R a Y, T R I C, H. The sticky gray trick. Yeah.

Marco: Okay, so I guess it is G R a Y. Trevor showed me G R a I. Maybe it was a French spelling.

Amanda: You guys kept saying GR A, I and I kept saying, I don't. I think it's a Y. And anyways, I found it with a Y sticky gray trick by the name of these mushrooms. And, man, we found a lot of them.

Marco: they have a great cap to it, but a very white underbelly.

Amanda: Yeah. And you want them when they're white because obviously they'll turn if they've been there too long. And mushrooms are very in the moment. Right. And that's one thing we were talking about. Like, it keeps you present. Like, they may not have been there a few days ago, and now they are, and then in another week, they're gone, you know, so you have to kind of find them, and they. They go where they go. I mean, you can have a mushroom farm, of course. But, yeah, so we found. Great trick. But that's not all.

Marco: Amanda found a lot of funnel mushrooms.

Amanda: Well, not a lot. A couple. Those are not to be eaten. We learned a lot about the ones you could eat and the ones you couldn't eat, of course. And he. I should say he inspects everything before you leave to make sure that nobody's walking away with something that they shouldn't be eating.


Some mushrooms that we found were these things called turkey tails

so some other mushrooms that we found were these things called turkey tails.

Marco: Oh, yes.

Amanda: And they almost look like, you know, the type of moss that kind of is a curly, light green moss that you just see on bark. It's like that a little bit, but soft and protruding and brown and a mushroom. So it really does look like a turkey tail. It's sort of a. Almost like a lace that the.

Marco: Yeah.

Amanda: On the. On the bark that's growing in what you want to get it when it's really soft and you can just peel it right off. It doesn't have a stem, so it's just the cap. And you can't eat it directly. But what you use it for is you could make a tea with it. You could, use it. He said it's great in soup to thicken a broth or flavor a broth. So we got a bunch of those turkey tails. Then we came across.

Marco: They're the most medicinal mushroom one can

Amanda: find or the highly good for lots of things. For people who follow that, I'll let you know. I don't want to give any medical

Marco: advice, but certainly make sure that you, if you do go foraging for mushrooms, that you have someone who is like a professor of the forest who can tell you what is what.

Amanda: Dr. Mushroom. can I keep. You look like.


We also found velvet foot mushrooms that are really beautiful

Do you want to jump in here with other mushrooms?

Marco: I was just going to say that I will post photos of all these mushrooms we talk about on our Instagram so you can follow us on our Instagram page.

Amanda: I wanted to say that we also found velvet foot mushrooms. Those are beautiful. It was our friend's birthday, so we let him have our dose of them. And everybody was really lovely making sure everyone got. Because the great trick were you really went and foraged for them and you could kind of take as many as you could find. And everyone had a ton.

Marco: And some people would call you over when they found some because usually there was more around. And they said, help me look. And they were covered with pine needles, so you had to sort of brush them aside to get to the trick.

Amanda: Very cool. Yeah. But these velvet foot were really beautiful. They're light brown, soft, and growing from old bark or dead bark on the side. On a tree.

Marco: On. On the actual tree.

Amanda: Yeah. They're beautiful mushrooms. And you use your knife to kind of get them off of the tree, but they do have a stem.

Marco: The other mushroom that we found was called shrimp of the Woods.

Amanda: Tell them about that.

Marco: So the shrimp of the wood mushroom, is a mushroom that kind of looks, almost like a truffle. Like a very white truffle. Like it's. It's kind of oblong. It's not mushroom shaped, per se.

Amanda: Like a little bulb. Almost like a bul.

Marco: Almost as if you had tiny shrimp and breaded them and fried them. The shape that that would make is kind of the shape that would. That the shrimp of the mushrooms look like.

Amanda: To me, it looks like a plant bulb. Like when you have a bunch of bulbs and you're planting some sort of plant in the fall. Well, that bright white.

Marco: That particular mushroom surrounds another mushroom.

Amanda: A golden cap or something.

Marco: Yeah, it surrounds this mushroom and encapsulates it and sort of swallows that mushroom and becomes shrimp of the woods.

Amanda: Now, we've all heard of hen of the woods. That's a very popular mushroom. Tell us about Shrimp of the Woods.

Marco: So Shrimp of the woods is this white mushroom that grows on the surface of the ground so you don't have to dig for it like you would a truffle. It's its own little thing, but it's

Amanda: like a little ball that you find. And then you find a bunch of them.

Marco: Yeah, almost like a gold nugget. You know, when you see people pan for gold nuggets, it kind of looks like that.

Amanda: A white shrimpy nugget.

Marco: A white shrimpy nugget nugget under pine needles. And when you find one, there's usually all its friends around it.

Amanda: And you kind of have to uncover it. Like, you might see it sticking out, but at the same time, if you kind of loosen up the dirt around it, then you might really discover a bunch, which we did.

Marco: And supposedly it takes on the flavor much like a shrimp.

Amanda: And it looks like a shrimp. See, what's interesting is he didn't say it tastes like a shrimp.

Marco: Oh.

Amanda: He said they're only called shrimp of the woods because when you cut them, they're pink inside.

Marco: I see.

Amanda: However, our friends fried it up with butter, and they maintain that it does, in fact, taste like a shrimp.

Marco: Or is it one of those things where people think it tastes like it? you know, because of the name you think it, it takes on. Embodies that sort of flavor or characteristic.

Amanda: If I called it something else, would it take on something else? you know what else we had? Garlic. Was it called garlic mustard?

Marco: Garlic mustard.

Amanda: And that was actually really good. Big leaves of it. And he showed it to us and said it's like a bitter green that you could eat. And we all kind of ate a leaf out of it and it definitely tasted garlic. I would love to cook with that

Marco: with a bit of peppery taste to it.

Amanda: Yeah, it's really lovely.


Amanda: Peter found a bejeweled mushroom during a hike

Marco: And then I was on a mushroom bender, Amanda, because I found a bejeweled mushroom, which Peter said when I said to him, I said, look at this. And it was a beautiful looking mushroom. And Peter said that is a prized mushroom.

Amanda: And what is it called?

Marco: The bejeweled.

Amanda: It's called the jeweled something.

Marco: The speckled jeweled mushroom. I'll see. I think Trevor sent me the name of all the mushrooms.

Amanda: That looks like a. Just a typical sort of white mushroom, a little longer than a mushroom you get at the grocery store, but, a little longer and whiter, leaner, but with these, with this sort of jeweled top. Very fascinating. yeah, there are a lot of really interesting things and it really, you know, it really kind of goes to show that just like a hike on a trail, I wouldn't have seen any of these things or even known what to look for. So it really does remind us that there's so much in the forest.

Marco: so much.

Amanda: Our good friend Dale said. This is like, this is like forest bathing with a purpose. And I think that's a really apt description. Like finding some sort of hobbyist or even culinary excuse to actually just allow yourself to have this beautiful walk in a forest that you might not otherwise have. And I actually think Peter's story is so interesting. So I wonder if I could share that.

Marco: Of course. Gem studded mushroom.

Amanda: Gem studded. Yeah, we said bejeweled. Like it's bedazzled. I like a bedazzled mushroom. So Peter's story. And we can we can maybe tag him on some of those photos. Marco.

Marco: Sure.

Amanda: If maybe it's up to you.

Marco: The gem studded puffball is actually what the mushroom is called.

Amanda: Oh. And we did come across a lot of puffball mushrooms as well.

Marco: Or lyso purdan per Latin per latum.

Amanda: And those are really puffball mushrooms are very interesting mushrooms because again, like a, typical button mushroom you'd get in the grocery store. But like huge Hyperbolized version of that almost.

Marco: And Trevor got an oyster mushroom. He got some wild oyster mushrooms.

Amanda: Oh, fall oyster mushrooms.

Marco: Fall oysters, yeah. There you go.

Amanda: Which I guess is different than a typical oyster. I'm not really sure, but they were called fall oyster mushrooms. So lots of mushrooms. In one hike?

Marco: In one hike.

Amanda: Now, we were out in that forest for about three hours. but of course we were digging and foraging. Foraging is more than digging. Right. It's like gently uncovering brush and looking at the backs of bark and all of those things.


Peter started foraging his own land and now makes a living doing it

Marco: You were going to tell us Peter's story?

Amanda: Yeah, I'd like to. So Peter, had a very different career and I don't know if we got what that was, but anyway, had a very. I'm gonna go ahead and put him as like a crazy high powered stockbroker in the corporate world. I don't really know what, what he was.

Marco: He ran a BNB is what he told me.

Amanda: Wow, okay. Corporate, high powered bnb, high stress. He was the Gordon Gecko of, the bed and breakfast scene. Anyway. And in any event, he had a lot of land and he started looking around on that land again. I'm going to do my own version of his story.

Marco: As I understand it, Diane and Beam might know where that land is or

Amanda: was, why it was in the

Marco: Eastern townships of Quebec. There you go.

Amanda: But I think he had another job quite seriously that wasn't the bnb. He lost that job went through a lot of changes in his life that he was pretty open about in terms of his relationships and things like that. Sure. You know, just changes. And sort of felt like all he had was this land. And he was like, well, what can one do? I don't, you know, I'm not working. And so he started foraging just out of his own interest, his own need. Even started foraging his own land. And from that started learning all about the different mushrooms. What can I eat, what isn't good, what's medicinal, what's poisonous. Of course, all of those things. You know, just going through it, mushroom by mushroom, educating himself, being part of a mushroom community, plant by plant. Yeah. And then. Yeah, and all the plants as well. And so he started to get to know it while other people wanted to be taken on this land and taken on tours of this land. So he started doing that at first for fun and then for a fee.

Marco: And this is when he moved to Stratford, is when he started doing this.

Amanda: Yeah. So then he started charging people again. Just a passion, a hobby really. More and more people came, so Then he started this foraging business and now he's not even foraging on his own land. I mean, he probably still is, but he's out in all of these other, like we said, crown land conservation areas, public trails, hikes, all these places, finding the same types of gems, quite literally gem studded mushrooms and other delights that he could find on his own land. And of course, they change week to week, season to season. And so, you know, it wasn't a very expensive, I mean, should I say how much it was?

Marco: You can say how much it was.

Amanda: So it was, it was $40 for each of us, which, you know, for a lovely day and a wonderful hike

Marco: and the experience, what a wonderful experience,

Amanda: felt well worth it on our, as far as we're concerned. But he has, he's quite booked up. He has, you know, he has 15, 20 people, whatever it is, a pop. And I just think it's an extraordinary thing that he now, just by his own curiosity and a little bit of elbow grease, I suppose, but his own curiosity. Ultimately he makes a living doing this. It's a lovely business.

Marco: He shares his knowledge.

Amanda: He shares his knowledge. He, he allows people to reinvest their, you know, into the land and their appreciation for the land. He gets to be out there every day for a couple hours just, you know, searching for treasure in the forest with a bunch of really lovely people.

Marco: It really was like treasure hunting. Because when you found the mushrooms, Amanda, it was such a fun little moment.

Amanda: Yeah, I just think it's wonderful. I just assumed he was a Prof. Of like horticulture or something and that this was just a side thing. And then I realized, no, he has other groups and other people and assistant. And it's this whole business really, it's

Marco: really, it's really quite marvelous out of,

Amanda: out of just, you know, being poking around on some land and I just think that's, that's lovely. It just shows us that the world has gifts waiting if we want them,

Marco: you know, and you know, listeners, you're our gift. So thank you for being with us on this particular episode. Go out into the land, explore, forage. Even if you don't collect anything, just see what's out there. And this is our last episode for the season, but none to worry. Starting December, we will have our holiday episodes. That's one episode for every day in December, Amanda. we're gonna record newer episodes for that because we've been sort of using episodes from the past. You'll hear some of our treasures from the past, but you'll also hear some of our new episodes as well. On the holiday episodes, don't forget to leave us a five star review. Any things you. Anything you want to leave our listeners with. Amanda.

Amanda: Yeah, I believe, this business is called Pucks, but what I'm going to do is we will tag it on the Instagram. And when I say we, I mean you will because I just can't bring it up. But Peter from, from Puck's mushroom foraging.

Marco: I'll see if I can find his, web address and then I'll put it on the show notes. So if anybody is in Ontario and they want to go, mushroom hunting or foraging. Foraging.

Amanda: And once you forage with him for a year after that you can send him a picture of any old mushroom that you find and he will tell you what it is. And if it's saf to eat, that's cool.

Marco: I'm excited to go for morels in the spring.

Amanda: Yes, he went on a hike, folks. Now, how much is m. How much would a, morel mushroom be?

Marco: Listen there.

Amanda: It's.

Marco: It's more than the price of gas, I'll say that. It's more like truffles, really. Yeah, Morels are, are highly. And chanterelles. Any, any l mushroom.

Amanda: So he went and they found morels in that forest where we were and they found 200 of them in one go at one point. And then the next week they expected to find more and they found like 20. But still, that's incredible.

Marco: So great. All right, till next time. We hope you find your treasures when you explore. And until next season, we hope you are able during this season to listen and sleep.

In Around the World in Museums (Listener Request!), Amanda and Marco respond to a thoughtful suggestion from a listener and take you on a softly narrated tour of fascinating museums across North America. From the twang-filled halls of the American Banjo Museum in Oklahoma City to the layered immigrant stories of the Tenement Museum, the conversation unfolds like a gentle travel diary. They also wander through the pop culture playground of the Museum of Pop Culture in Seattle and share a few laughs about the National Comedy Center — with a fond nod to the Lucille Ball & Desi Arnaz Museum as well.
As always, this calming podcast is less about fast facts and more about relaxed curiosity. The tone is unhurried and companionable, offering a relaxing conversation designed to help you fall asleep, ease anxiety, or quiet racing thoughts. It’s perfect for background listening while you settle into bed or during a middle-of-the-night wake-up. There’s no need to take notes — just let the gentle descriptions and shared enthusiasm for museum gift shops carry you peacefully toward rest.

​

Marco: Welcome to the Insomnia Project. Sit back, relax and listen as we have a calm conversation meant to help you drift your way or find your way to sleep. Thank you for joining us. I'm your host, Marco Timpano.

Amanda: I'm Amanda Barker.

Marco: Amanda, our crocuses are popping their heads out of our front yard.

Amanda: They're popping like peas, man.

Marco: M and they're. And they're really pretty. And I planted them all last fall and I'm hoping that the 50 or the 100 that I planted at least.

Amanda: You know, I know you planted so many and hopefully it wasn't all squirrel food. Well, some are coming up. What, what colors were they?

Marco: Well, we've got a lot of yellows a lot of purples. I don't know. I planted some white ones, but the white ones haven't popped up yet. so hopefully, you know, we'll see more and more of them. Yeah.


Amanda: This was sent from Ashley Ander on Instagram

And Amanda, as promised, we're going to, talk about our topic today. Was sent from one of our listeners.

Amanda: I know, I love that.

Marco: So this is sent from Ashley Ander on Instagram. So thank you, Ashley. And I have to say I love their Instagram because it features their travels and plants and vegetables, including. You'll love this. Bees and bees pollinating plants and stuff like that. So that's always fun.


Ashley asks us to talk about our favorite or unusual museums

So Ashley asks us to talk about our favorite or unusual museums that we've been to.

Amanda: Oh, I love this topic. Where to begin? Where to begin? Shall I begin?

Marco: Yeah, begin if you want.

Amanda: You know, the first one that jumps out of my brain and I don't even know if it's still there, is the Commonwealth Museum in Kuala Lumpur, which is interesting. Right. Because it was the. The museum that celebrated the British Commonwealth.

Marco: Sure.

Amanda: Which, I'll be honest, I didn't know was a thing until I went to that museum. So that shows you how young I was or how uneducated I was. I suppose. But, I went in the 90s when I was backpacking Southeast Asia, and I just remember I was fascinated because each part of it was obviously a different country. And so I was just so fascinated by. I mean, I didn't know they were all connected by the British Commonwealth. Now, obviously that's a challenging topic for lots of reasons, but for me, at that moment in the late 90s, it was this exploration of things I just didn't know about and a certain sense of travel through each of these countries. Just the first one that pops into my mind. And again, I don't even know if it's still there.

Marco: Oh, fair enough. That was.

Amanda: A lot of those countries aren't part of the Commonwealth anymore.

Marco: Yeah.

Marco: And I wasn't with you at the time, so.

Amanda: No.

Marco: So I don't know anything about that museum. But one museum that we went to together was in Oklahoma City, and it was the American Banjo Museum.

Amanda: That's not the museum I thought you're going to talk about at Oklahoma City.

Marco: I'm going to talk about this museum.

Amanda: Museum is amazing.

Marco: The Oklahoma. The American Banjo. Banjo Museum is dedicated to the history of the banjo. And Amanda, you know, the banjo isn't the first instrument I think of when I think of my favorite instruments, but we were there and I was like, let's go to this banjo museum. It has great reviews.

Amanda: Yes.

Marco: And it was fantastic. It really gives you the history of the banjo. So many actual banjos on display. Too many to count. All the musicians, who have played the banjo and made the banjo their lives. Kermit the frog and his banjo performance.

Amanda: Steve Martin owns an entire wing of it. Actor and musician Steve Martin.

Marco: So many banjo performers. And it was so fascinating and it was lovely. And it was larger than you would otherwise. Larger than I expected. And the part that I loved the most was at the end of the museum. There's an area where you, the museum goer, can pick up a banjo.

Amanda: That's right.

Marco: And play. And I was waiting for this part for the whole museum when I got to.

Amanda: You want to touch them because you're walking through and you're like, oh, I wonder what this one sounds like.

Marco: And so we go into this little room where there's like, I would say about 12 banjos on the wall on hooks.

Marco: And each banjo has a sort of description of what that banjo is.

Amanda: Right. And.

Marco: And I was looking at all the banjos really excited. And I picked up one of the banjos that I thought would. The steel banjo that had like a sort of, bluegrass sound to it. So I was like, okay, this is the banjo for me.

Amanda: You did? Yeah.

Marco: And I pick up the banjo and unbeknownst to me, there's a couple that

Amanda: are there, sort of an elderly couple. And they're watching us. And the way Marco picked up this banjo with such determination, like he was looking at all the banjos and then he went, ah, yes, this is the one. And picked it up. And so this couple was waiting in anticipation for Marco to start strumming. Right. His amazing bluegrass jam.

Marco: And I pick up the banjo and I have no idea how to play any instrument but the banjo in particular.

Amanda: But he had the confidence and determination like he did.

Marco: So I sit on a stool and I just start to whale on this banjo.

Amanda: Yes. But it was a lot of playing, Playing plong. You know what it sounds like when you don't know how to play a, ah, stringed instrument.

Marco: And unbeknownst to me, the gentleman who was there was a banjo player. It was a very, very astute banjo player.

Amanda: So he was ready to be dazzled and was like, oh, okay.

Marco: And so I just played the banjo the way I wanted to play it for a good 10 minutes and I felt very satisfied.

Amanda: I don't think it was 10 minutes. That would have been a lot on anyone's Ears.

Marco: Okay. For however long I played. And it felt really good to strum playing, to strum my banjo the way I was meant to strum a banjo.

Amanda: Wow. That's not a euphemism of any kind.

Marco: No. And let me ask you.

Amanda: Yeah.

Marco: Any other museums that you have funny stories?

Amanda: So many. So before we even do this, I guess we're in it now, but sure.


Do you like museums? I do like museums. Do I like every museum

Back intro. I suppose, as they say. Do. Do you like museums?

Marco: I do like museums.

Amanda: I feel like I take you to a lot of museums.

Marco: You take me to a lot of museums.

Amanda: I love museums.

Marco: Do I like every museum?

Amanda: No, I don't think you're meant to like every museum.

Marco: It's true. But I do enjoy a museum, and I think there's a big difference between an art gallery and a museum.

Amanda: Oh, that's a very good point. I mean, all art galleries, I think are museums, but not all museums are art galleries.

Marco: I don't know. That's a question for Ashley to. To figure out. But yes, I agree with you there. One of the things I love to do, Amanda and I'll. And we'll get to museums in just a second.


Rachel Lawrence loves going to a museum gift shop

Back to museums. Is I love going to a museum gift shop.

Amanda: Yes. So even if we don't have the time or the money or the inclination to go into museum, we'll often go into the gift shop as we're strolling around a city. It's a great idea.

Marco: And the museum gift shop is free. And it gives you an indication of what's going to be in that museum.

Amanda: That's true.

Marco: But also, you can find really unique and fun gifts or souvenirs for yourself.

Amanda: So what we do sometimes is we go into the gift shop and. And let that determine if we actually want to spend the next hour going to that museum.

Marco: And we picked up something for friends of ours, friends of the podcast, too, from a museum. And we were in their home recently and I saw it and I was like, oh, we got that for them years ago. And let me see if you remember which museum it was. So Matt and Melissa have a sugar bowl that we got them from a museum that says sugar S U G

Amanda: A H. I don't remember this even buying it.

Marco: Yeah. So it was from the Tenement Museum in New York. So it's supposed to be written in sort of a New York sort of slang.

Amanda: Sure.

Marco: And we had bought it for them because we thought it was really cute and they love, what do you call that? Cubed sugar.

Amanda: Ah, cubed sugar. Sugar cubes.

Marco: Sugar cubes. Thank you.

Amanda: That's what you call it, not the band.

Marco: And so we got it for them for a gift, and they loved it. And they had it all these years later.

Amanda: I didn't realize that.

Marco: So the Tenement Museum in New York City in the Lower east side is a fantastic museum. And I will say that the museum gift shop there is impeccable.

Amanda: It's such a wonderful museum. It's a special museum if you. If you've never been or don't know about, is an old tenement building. So the old apartments from the turn of the century, when everybody's great, great grandparents in the States, were coming over on Ellis island and changing their names and getting the stamps and starting a new life, lest we remember an American story, The story of Fievel the mouse, anyway, that type of thing.

Marco: Tale as old as time.

Amanda: Yes. Well, that's Beauty and the Beast.

Marco: Oh, is it? Okay, Sorry.

Amanda: Isn't there a song somewhere out there?

Marco: Oh, sorry. Somewhere out there. Okay.

Amanda: Anyway, And the tenement museum, what happened was it was a tenement that was in operation. And remember, like, a lot of these tenements had shared bathroom facilities. And it was not. If you think of, like, Angela's Ashes or other movies Far and Away. They're all Irish, the ones I can think of. But anyway, movies of people that moved into these tenements as their first stop into the new world kind of thing, into their new lives. this tenement existed for years and years. And then I think in the 50s or 60s, something happened with the building, and they just boarded it up and left it like that. So some of these apartments were. Were time capsules right and left like that. Some of them from the turn of the century that hadn't been inhabited. Others from, you know, the 30s, 40s, 50s. And so what's happened is they've taken this museum and you can go on a tour to these different apartments and that serve as these time capsules and learn about the families that live there and what life was like for them and for their story. You know, I spent a lot of this morning talking about how as humans, we are wired for story. Right? We're wired for that connection and those specifics. So it's a very specific museum. and it's a museum where you could go four times, five times and see very different things, because you won't see all the apartments. You sort of book the tour to see the Sicilian apartment from the 30s or the Russian apartment from the turn

Marco: of the century, or you get to meet the Inhabitants who lived in those apartments in the tenements. So there's one like, I'm looking on their website right now. Meet the Moors. Joseph and Rachel lived in a rear tenement at 17 Lawrence street, less than a mile west of the location of the tenement museum in the neighborhood. And their building shared a courtyard or court, courtyard, rather, with two other tenements. And you basically walk through the lives of the moors and meet the Irish, West Indian, Cuban and French immigrants, from Virginia, Maryland, and all those places that lived around them. And, you know, there's all these different tours you can do at the tenement Museum, which I find fascinating. and there's a new one called the Union of Hope. And you've got a book ahead because it gets quite, quite full. But I would invite you to check out their, website and their gift shop, tenement.org because they've got digital exhibits as well. Amanda.

Amanda: Oh, wow.

Marco: Yeah. So that's pretty cool.

Marco: Yeah.

Amanda: So that's a great museum.


Another museum that springs to mind is Seattle's Museum of Pop Culture

Another museum that springs to mind is the Museum of Pop Culture.

Marco: Oh, yes.

Amanda: In Seattle. That's a great museum. and they have all sorts of rotating exhibits. There's a whole Star Trek wing.

Marco: I think that was so much fun because you got to beam yourself up.

Amanda: Yeah.

Marco: Which was. Which was awesome. And, you know, you got to be on a recreation of the deck.

Amanda: Yeah.

Marco: And you would hit the button and your. Your image would sort of.

Amanda: That's right.

Marco: Drift away.

Amanda: There was a Jim. We talked about Kermit and the Banjos. There's a. There was, when we were there, anyway. A Jim Henson exhibit. And they had Muppets, like the original Muppets from the Dark Crystal, which is one of my ultimate favorite movies.

Marco: As a child, we were able to. To have a puppet on our hands and sort of be a puppeteer. What it would be like in the 50s. And so you'd have to hide your body underneath the table and you could watch yourself on a screen with these. With these Muppets. Right. Amanda.

Amanda: Really interesting interactive museum that I didn't expect, that didn't have a lot of hype around it, at least for us. But it was just something to do when we were in Seattle. And, I really recommend that one.

Marco: And they have constant rotating exhibits that go there. So, for example, right now, some of the current exhibits are Nirvana taking punk to the masses.

Amanda: Right. Seattle was the home of grunge indie

Marco: game revolution, fantasy worlds of myth and magic. M. Hendrix. Wild Blue angel was the Hendrix.

Amanda: Seattle.

Marco: No, I don't Think so.

Amanda: Was it?

Marco: Oh, now, I don't know.

Amanda: Look it up. Keep going.

Marco: the massive power of pop culture. You know, there's so many different. I think they had a whole guitar. Do you remember Amanda? They had this whole, like, wing of guitars. Speaking of instruments, though, you couldn't play those ones.

Amanda: But he was from Seattle. I thought he was.

Marco: I stand corrected. I'm sorry. Yeah, so definitely one to check out is the Pop Culture Museum, in Seattle. The Mopop, I believe is what it's called. And a recent museum we went to, Amanda, which was just so great. And we, I think we've mentioned it on the show, was the Comedy Museum in Jamestown, New York.

Amanda: I mean, it might be my favorite museum I've ever been to. Now listen, I'm its audience. It speaks to so many of the people that I loved and shaped what I do and who I wanted to be. But it's also just a fantastic museum.

Marco: I, ah, thought we were gonna spend an hour, maybe M2 in that museum. We spent an hour in one wing in the basement. In the basement. We spent so much time in the basement that we then went for lunch and came back and said we have to spend the whole day here.

Amanda: It's an interactive museum. They take a profile of you at the beginning of the things you like. you wear a bracelet throughout the whole museum so that your bracelet has your information and it interacts. It can, you know, have, different things pop up in the end, it shows you the different types of comedy that resonates with you. but there's so many amazing pieces of history in there. Like George Carlin's notes. the five. Was it how many things you can't say on television?

Marco: Yeah, seven things.

Amanda: Seven.

Marco: I think it's seven.

Amanda: Anyway, his, his lists of that and how they evolved over the years of

Marco: people's outfits, you could, there was an area where you could sort of sit and take a break and watch comedic performances as if you were there.

Amanda: There's a whole Johnny Carson theater that we didn't even go into.

Marco: There was like comedy, in the comics and stuff and you could draw your own comics.

Amanda: That's right.

Marco: And the great thing about Jamestown, New York is if that museum wasn't enough and it's a, it's a very large and vast and brand new museum. They also have the Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz Museum. And you can sort of buy a pass to see both, which I think we did. M. And that was also a really interesting museum to see the impact that they both had on comedy and television. And, you know, Lucille Ball gets a lot of credit, but there's a lot of credit given to Desi Arnaz and how he shaped how we watch modern sitcoms today. Yeah. So it was really.


Jamestown, New York, is definitely a place to go see these various museums

Jamestown, New York, is definitely a place to go see these various museums.

Amanda: And I think these experiential museums are like a whole other thing. Like, recently we went to Massachusetts, and we went to the Plymouth Pawtuxet Museum.

Marco: That's right. It was amazing.

Amanda: Which was my favorite place of my childhood. where actors, they almost don't seem like actors. They're so good at what they do. They inhabit the lives and become the original pilgrims, that settled in that land. They also have a whole indigenous section for the indigenous people and their stories of the 1600s and beyond. And it is truly an incredible museum to visit. It was as a child, and it remains that way today.

Marco: And now to bounce from. From, you know, Canada and the U.S. museums, I'd like to go to that museum that you like in Mexico of that artist. I can't remember her name right now.

Amanda: Frida Kahlo. Ye.

Marco: Thank you.

Amanda: Well, Frida Kahlo's house has become a museum and really a type of monument for artists. it's really where I kind of fell in love with Frida Kahlo. I liked her work. I thought she was colorful and interesting. That's sort of where it ended for me.

Marco: Sure.

Amanda: But being in her home and learning about her firsthand, being in her gardens, by her bed, where she painted on her cast, all of that was a really transformative experience for me. And I think a good museum can do that, because it's really an example of an artist who bloomed where she was planted.

Marco: Oh, I love that.

Amanda: That's what it was. I mean, she was recovering from a streetcar accident. Right. And so she started painting on the ceiling, because that's all she would look at all day. She would paint on her cast that she had to her body cast that she had to wear. And so she was creating art, really, from within, in any way possible. so it's a real testament to an artist. Obviously, she lived there with Diego Rivera, another amazing artist in his own right, of course. And, so it's quite. And you learn about their lives in the 20s and 30s and the types of lives that they lived by just being in their home and experiencing that really incredible museum in Mexico City, in the Coyocon neighborhood of Mexico City.

Marco: Fantastic.


What is the difference between an art gallery And a museum

What is the difference between an art gallery And a museum. And when does one become the other? So, for example, I think of when I think of the Accademia, gallery in Florence, where Statue of David is.

Amanda: Right.

Marco: I think of it as a museum, not an art gallery. Even though it's called Accademia Galleria of Florence or Galleria della Accademia di Firenze. I don't think of it as an art gallery. I picture it as a museum.

Amanda: Well, that museum. I'm sure there's other art there, but it's all eclipsed by David because Michelangelo's David is so powerful and big and has its own cathedral there, almost like its own room. But, is there other art there? I barely remember.

Marco: There's a lot.

Marco: There's that area, Amanda, where there's so

Amanda: much art in Florence, so it would make sense.

Marco: That's true.

Marco: there's that area where they have all the busts and the different version of the busts of different, sculptors.

Amanda: So you don't think of that as an art gallery?

Marco: No, because it seemed to inform more than.

Amanda: I think that's what a good art gallery does. So when I was a child, and, you know, we were a family of five on one income. It was a challenging time, as it always is for a struggling family. My parents, my mother especially, was very good at finding things to do that didn't cost the family money. And one of the things that we used to do very regularly was visit the museum because it was free on Sundays. And so we would go to this art gallery. It was in Brockton, Massachusetts. I don't remember what the name of it was. South Shore Art Gallery, probably.

Marco: Sure.

Amanda: And that, was a museum. I mean, it was a real experiential thing. Now, mind you, you weren't touching everything and handling everything, but you were reading about things and looking at things and artifacts and so on. So I think. I think any good art gallery is a museum. I really do.

Marco: I see.

Amanda: Personally.

Marco: Fair enough. I mean, I'm sure there's many different definitions of what makes one the other, but has there ever been a museum that you were exc. To go to that.

Amanda: Disappointed.

Marco: Disappointed.

Amanda: I love them all.

Marco: For me, it was. Remember I dragged you and Michelle Miracle to the Liberace Museum in Vegas because someone had said it was really incredible.

Amanda: I don't even remember going in.

Marco: It was. It was not great, and it was expensive, and we. I don't think it exists anymore. But the museum I want to go to in Las Vegas is the Mob Museum or the Museum of The Mob. It's supposed to be really fascinating and interesting.

Amanda: Yeah, there's a Johnny Cash museum in Nashville that I haven't been to, that wasn't open last time I was there, but it's open now and apparently it's great. And speaking of Nashville.

Marco: Oh, my goodness.

Amanda: The Country Music hall of Fame. Now that's a museum. That's.

Marco: Is it a museum? Is it a hall of fame?

Amanda: It's a museum and it's a hall of fame. Like, the hall of fame is one little area where they have plaques, but the rest of it is a museum where you see people talking about their songwriting in there.

Marco: It's actually called the Country Music hall hall of Fame and Museum. So you're right.

Amanda: And I definitely recommend it. And the thing about it is you don't have to even know a thing about country music for it to still be fascinating. Because I think a good museum tells stories. Right. In its own way and in a very non conventional way. You know, sometimes it is very conventional. It's a plaque and you're reading about the artist. Other times it's experiencing their work. I think of the Art Gallery of Ontario and some of the exhibits they've had. Most recently, the one that comes to mind was last year's Leonard Cohen exhibit. Yeah, he was an artist, he was a poet, he was a songwriter, he was a performer. He was so many different things. And so experiences. You go into a room and you're, at a concert of his. Ah, you're going through his poetry journals and another one. So, you know, I think that's what a good exhibit or a good museum does, ultimately.

Marco: Yeah, I love a museum where you. There's a tactile component where you, as the museum goer can physically touch things and manipulate things and hold things. I've always really loved that.

Amanda: M. And of course, there's a whole other thing that we haven't even talked about, maybe for another show, the immersive experience, which can be. I think what a good museum does is allow you into the artist's mind, into their paintings or their work. and that's a whole other section of museums.

Marco: Yeah. We recently went to the Disney Immersive Museum here in Toronto, and I wasn't expecting much of it, to be honest with you. Amanda. I like Disney, but not enough to be, you know, and we might not

Amanda: have time to do a deep dive on all the immersives because we've been to. I've been to about four or five now.

Marco: Yeah. But that Disney museum we took My niece and nephew.

Amanda: Immersive Experience.

Marco: Immersive Experience was so great. I really loved it. Yeah.

Amanda: I'm trying to think of other museums along the south coast of France.


Ashley: London has some incredible museums and Nice has some great ones

Years ago, I remember going to like Renoir's house, I think Degas house. And of course there's some great museums in Nice and that area as well. But the museums tend to be the artist studios and you get to go and sort of not only appreciate their work that is there, but their life and their lifestyle, which is a pretty good lifestyle in south of France. Being an artist.

Marco: Sure. One of the museums that left a really big impression on me and I think it was an exhibit in the museum and it was in London M. And I can't remember which museum it was, but it was a, ah, tour through the M. Royal Jewelry Collection.

Amanda: Oh, wow.

Marco: And you were on a. What do you call those sidewalks that move? A moving sidewalk.

Amanda: Oh, wow.

Marco: Because they were getting so many people through them.

Amanda: Right.

Marco: And they lit the. The crowns and the scepters and the rings so well. And as you were going through, you just saw all these jewels sort of light up and it was like. It was great and it was impressive and it was all the things, all the emotions for some people was sad and et cetera. But it was just incredible to see, to witness that.

Amanda: and I know we talked about the British Commonwealth who sort of began with that. I will say London has some incredible museums. And yes, you know, there is a large dialogue and movement to return some of these artifacts to their home countries. No question. about at any given moment going into one of those museums. I mean, you're only ever seeing a museum's. What is it like a third of their collection at any moment?

Marco: A lot of it's not on display. Right.

Amanda: the. Is it the Royal British Museum?

Marco: Is that what it's called?

Amanda: That's just the big one. Yeah, that one's incredible.

Marco: I tried to. Sadly, I tried to go to the Shania Twain Museum when I was in Timmins, Ontario last year. But get this, Amanda. The Shania Twain Museum got excavated and is now a mine. So they're mining, I want to say

Amanda: gold, but they're mining talent.

Marco: No, they're mining in the. In the town where Shania Twain was born and Timmons. Yes, Timmins, Ontario.

Marco: Or I don't.

Marco: She wasn't born there, but she lived there for the formative years of her life. It's also a mining town.

Amanda: Right.

Marco: And this museum, Shania to a museum was right in the heart of the city And I guess they discovered under the museum was something of value, and so now they're mining it and there's a huge open pit mine in the middle of the city.

Amanda: So crazy.

Marco: I'll leave you with that fascinating tidbit. Thank you so much, Ashley, for the suggestion of, this topic of museums. I hope you enjoyed it. And if you have a topic that you would like to hear us talk about, please let us know on our social media. You can find them in our show notes or listen and Sleep is, I believe, our Instagram, or no, our Twitter and the Insomnia project is our Instagram. Feel free to reach out to us in any of those platforms or any way you wish to. Until next time, we hope you enjoyed this podcast.


Amanda hopes to go to the Georgia o' Keeffe Museum

Is there a museum you're hoping to go to, Amanda?

Amanda: Oh, my goodness. I know.

Marco: I'm hoping to go to the Georgia o' Keeffe Museum.

Amanda: Oh, yes.

Marco: Which we're heading to.

Amanda: I'll. I'll.

Marco: That'll be the one next month, so we'll talk about that when we get back. Until then, we hope you were able to listen and sleep.

In Deep Dive with Us, Amanda and Marco return to the microphones after recent travels, easing into a softly spoken recap of sunshine, snorkeling, and city streets. Amanda reflects on a gentle ocean adventure in a warm, sun-drenched location — describing the quiet rhythm of breathing through a snorkel, drifting over underwater landscapes, and the calm wonder of spotting sea life below. The conversation moves slowly, like floating on the surface, unhurried and easy to follow.
From there, the episode takes a mild detour to the lively energy of Los Angeles, where downtown moments contrast with the stillness of the sea. Rather than rushing through highlights, Marco and Amanda let the stories unfold at a relaxed pace, offering small sensory details and playful hints without urgency.
As always, this calming podcast is designed to help you fall asleep, ease anxiety, or quiet racing thoughts. It works beautifully as background listening at bedtime or during a middle-of-the-night wake-up. Whether you’re imagining ocean breezes or city lights, let this gentle travel reflection guide you steadily toward rest.

​Deep Diving and explore
(Original airdate: June 12, 2024)

The Insomnia Project is a podcast designed for insomniacs

Welcome to the Insomnia Project. Sit back, relax and listen as we have a calm conversation that'll hopefully bring you to sleep. The Insomnia Project, of course, is a podcast designed by insomniacs for insomniacs or for people who find it a challenge to find sleep to help to get

Amanda:  you there, or for people that, like me, don't always find it challenging. But finding a way into sleep through sort of a stream of consciousness, that's sort of what we provide. That's how I see it.

Marco:  And if you're one of our listeners who just likes to listen to it and chill in the morning, or find your day by listening to our podcast,

Amanda:  or find your evening with a cup

Marco:  of tea, we welcome you as well. I'm, your host, Marco Timpano I'm

Amanda:  Amanda Barker, who keeps interjecting.

Marco:  That's all good. And Amanda, you know, our listeners might be. Oh, you're back. Where were you the last couple of weeks?

Amanda:  Shall we tell them?

Marco:  yes. First I should say we were going to record a podcast for Wednesday of last week, but I fell a little bit ill. I had a little bit of a fever and wasn't well enough to record. So that's why we got delayed an extra week.

Amanda:  Yeah. Your body has a immune response that's pretty immediate when it doesn't feel 100%.

Marco:  Certainly does.

Amanda:  But then. How are you feeling now?

Marco:  Better. So much better.

Amanda:  Yeah. So there you go.

Marco:  Calm and. And share with our listeners, Amanda, where we ended up going.

Amanda:  Ended up. Well, we had a scheduled trip. That's right. M. To Saudi Arabia. And, Which was not a place I think we saw either one of us going to.

Marco:  but work will take. Take you where it will take you.

Amanda:  Will take you where. Where it will take you. And since we were over there and, since we thought, well, we don't know when we'll next get over there, we wanted to explore a little bit of another country that we've been wanting to explore, really. The city, in another country, which is, the country being United Arab Emirates or the uae. And the city is Dubai. We really wanted to go to Dubai for a while, and, We did.

Marco:  Yeah, we did. And we just got back late last night. And so we're recording this today. You'll be hearing it within 20 minutes of us signing off.

Amanda:  Going over, it felt like. For me, anyway, I don't know how it felt for you. For me, it felt like a piece of cake going over there. Pretty much coming back, it was anything but. Just the way trips go sometimes.

Marco:  I'm one of those people who find it a challenge to fall asleep on planes or sitting upright. You, not so much.

Amanda:  I love a plane. sometimes when I'm trying to fall asleep, in fact, I imagine I'm on a plane.

Marco:  Oh, really?

Amanda:  Yeah.

Marco:  I didn't know that.

Amanda:  Or I'll imagine in my bed that I'm in a moving vehicle. Like I'm. I'm in a train. because I have this van life fantasy, as our listeners know. Right. These days, I imagine that, I actually have a thing where I imagine that we are driving to another place and we have, like, a camper caravan attached to our vehicle and that you're driving and I'm sort of sleeping in the back, which I don't even think you're supposed to do. But anyway, that's. Although, I don't know. Tour buses do it. Sure. But anyway, in a legal way, that's like my sleep.

Marco:  Do you see backgrounds? Like, where your camper is? Do you see the background?

Amanda:  You just have this, like, calm sense of you're driving. We're happy, everything's taken care of. And I'm just in the back thinking, I just want to be vertical for a few hours and get a bit of shut eye. And that seems to really calm me down. But the idea of sleeping on a train or a plane can do that as well. For me.

Marco:  For me. I always picture myself underwater around coral. Yeah. And, with marine life. Or sometimes I picture myself as one of the marine life there.

Amanda:  Really?

Marco:  Yeah, yeah.

Amanda:  like that you're a fish underground, under the water.

Marco:  M. Not so much a fish, but more like maybe a clam or amongst the coral or sea anemones and stuff like that.

Amanda:  I know that.


Marco: Maybe we should get our scuba diving license

Marco, I think you and I have reached an important phase in our relationship.

Marco:  And what might that be?

Amanda:  I think we need to get our scuba diving license. It's for those who have been longtime listeners for this last decade of this podcast. Can't believe it. Then you will well know and remember Nidhi, our former, co host, who's a dear friend I now occupy. But we love her very dearly. And, she has become very evolved in the last maybe five or six years, pretty much since she left the podcast. She left the podcast and became an expert diver.

Marco:  Yeah, she's an expert diver. I actually just messaged, her. She has this beautiful photo of herself on Instagram. And I'm like, gorgeous photo. She's like, we need to go for coffee or lunch or dinner. And I said, of course.

Amanda:  So I think you and I, maybe it's time we broach into diving. It's something I almost did on my first cruise ship where I worked, however many years ago. 20 years ago now. Oh, gosh, more than that. 25 years ago, I almost did it. And I thought, no, it's something I want to do with somebody. I don't want to do it alone. I want to do it with a loved one. I really thought this would be a wonderful thing to share with my partner someday.

Marco:  Sure.

Amanda:  and that was 25 years ago, way before we met. So I didn't do it. And you and I, we have snorkeled quite extensively at this point.

Marco:  And we're fortunate, like you said, because we can always ask Nidhi if she can't teach us how to scuba dive at this point. She's probably an instructor. I haven't checked in on that in a while. She can certainly direct us to where we can get our.

Amanda:  And she goes and she dives. She dives like she and her, best friend, they will go and. And to the same location sometimes just for the dive. So she's become really, really. It's a big part of her life, for sure. And I think that's wonderful.

Marco:  And if you want to hear about that, we have episodes where Nidhi talks about her diving.

Amanda:  But.

Marco:  Okay, so you want to venture into scuba diving.

Amanda:  I do. And so I think you and I might. You know, I know that swimming isn't your. You don't have the same level of ease or experience that I do, but I think with scuba diving, we could get you there.

Marco:  I do think that I'm a splash and tear kind of person in the water.

Amanda:  I think it could help your swimming.

Marco:  I think so too.

Amanda:  But we could start in a pool and do it in a very controlled environment.


Malima went to the world's deepest swimming pool in Dubai

Speaking of pools, we're going to jump right in. Ah, pardon the, expression, the pun. I went to the world's deepest swimming pool in Dubai.

Marco:  I had never heard of this in the world. Right. Not just in Dubai.

Amanda:  Yeah, I said, the world's deepest swimming pool.

Marco:  Yeah, yeah. Which. Which is in Dubai.

Amanda:  Which is in Dubai.

Marco:  So Amanda turns to me and says, you know what I'd really like to do? And I said, what? And she's like, I'd like to go to the world's deepest pool. And I said, okay, when do you want to do that? And she's like, oh, it's here in Dubai. And I said, I've never heard of this, so tell us how you discovered it.

Amanda:  So it's interesting because when I mentioned it, you know, we live in a world, as we all know, where we all have different algorith. And I think we've all been in that world. You know, we have different interests. Like, I'm sure Niddy's personalized algorithm has a lot to do with diving and underwater exploration and that level of travel mine does as well, although not really diving, but certainly I. And I'm not a person who's much on social media, so I can only imagine for people who are. But, I have seen these videos of this pool where you. Looks like a normal pool and then you look and it's almost like a mall. Looks like a mall underwater.

Marco:  Right?

Amanda:  Or that was my sense from these videos. and anyone who is interested when you wake up or later on, it's simply called Deep Dive Dubai. So it's a very easy name to remember if you haven't seen these videos. But I was actually surprised the few people I've told that I've done that knew about this pool.

Marco:  And these videos have people who are diving in this deep pool. And they'll be in little vignettes, if you will. Underwater.

Marco:  In like there might be a parking meter with a.

Amanda:  They're. They're playing pool in the pool.

Marco:  They're doing chess.

Amanda:  Yeah. There's a shopping cart, there's a Ducati motorcycle. Because it is Dubai underwater that you can get on and pretend to ride. all of that for me was sure, whatever. But just the idea of this pool looking like a typical pool at a, at a hotel really, or a Y, you know, just. We've talked a lot about how I love pools. It looks like a normal pool and then you get in and then it is 96ft deep.

Marco:  Yeah.

Amanda:  no more than that. It's 60 meters, which I think is 196ft.

Marco:  That sounds more like it.

Amanda:  Yeah. And I only know because somebody asked me yesterday, so you can obviously dive in the pool because it is that far down. But both financially and honestly, time wise, our time in Dubai was limited. So and one thing about Dubai that we really learned is unless you're there for an extended time, which people are. At one point, years ago, I thought about moving there to live. and I didn't ultimately, go for it. But you really. There's so much there. It's an expansive city.

Marco:  It's very vast in a way that I didn't expect. Same meaning that everything just goes on forever. Like it's a very expansive, vast city where not everything is right next to each other. Like say in a Manhattan.

Amanda:  Yes. Or I mean Boston is the quintessential smaller city where you can kind of really walk to everything if you wanted

Marco:  to Faneuil hall to, you know, the Quincy Market.

Amanda:  Quincy Market, which is all right there, you know, even to the aquarium, those types of things in Boston. for me, an expansive city, an example of such would be like Los Angeles. Right. Where you drive from point A to point B. But Los Angeles is a little different in that it's, you know, you had Hollywood and then a series of neighborhoods which became part of that greater Los Angeles area. Right. And so now they're all sort of connected by freeways, but they still have their Own, sort of. Each neighborhood, I think, has its own identity, like, you know, Venice or Malibu or.

Marco:  I think Los Angeles was more downtown. And then it started to swallow up things like Hollywood.

Amanda:  And there is a downtown la. We always forget that because we don't spend a lot of time there.

Marco:  But there is, and Nima took me there. And I love downtown la.

Amanda:  Oh, yeah.

Marco:  I can't wait to go back.

Amanda:  Really?

Marco:  Yeah, it was really neat. I won't talk much about it on this episode.

Amanda:  I didn't expect to be because I'm thinking of when we went to the flower markets in downtown la. That was a part of LA that I was. I don't know that I would say, oh, I was in love with it.

Marco:  No, I thought it was really cool because it felt like its own unique place and it didn't have that sort of artificial veneer to it.

Amanda:  So maybe you and I will do an LA version of this. Ah, ah, podcast.


Dubai is not a walkable city, that's for sure

but back to Dubai. Back to Dubai. So Dubai is not like that simply because it wasn't. And again, I don't really know, but it doesn't feel like it was a one place. And then it grew. It feels like it was planned to be like, this city is going to be massive. So let's spread it all out.

Marco:  It's not a walkable city, that's for sure.

Amanda:  Oh my goodness. For so many reasons, it's not a walkable city. I mean, there are pockets that. The thing is, it's warm.

Marco:  It's warm.

Amanda:  It's more than warm.

Marco:  They told us it's nice that you're here now while it's warm and not hot and not hot. And we both.

Amanda:  And at 42 degrees, we're like, okay, that's Celsius. So, yeah, it's, it's, it's a heat that I don't know if I've ever really experienced a level of that heat. If I'm being truly honest.

Marco:  I think it might be part of why I fell ill was how hot it was.

Amanda:  I think so. Okay.

Marco:  But anyways, regardless of that.

Amanda:  But the thing is about Dubai is that it really has, you know, it wants to be the city of the future. I mean, you drive in and it's like Blade Runner or some AI fantasy. Like it's just everything, you know, if you like the Chrysler Building in Manhattan, well, there's two side by side.

Marco:  It looks like it or whatever.

Amanda:  Yeah. So it has, the world's biggest mall, or almost the world's biggest mall

Marco:  now the world's tallest tower.

Amanda:  And the world's deepest swimming pool. And that's what, of course, piqued my interest.


Amanda: We love Dubai. It's an incredible city. I feel like every time we go somewhere, Amanda

Marco:  So I should say that we love Dubai. that's one thing that I want to mention.

Amanda:  Oh, it's incredible. It's an incredible city.

Marco:  I feel like every time we go somewhere, Amanda, we love the place we go to, and this is no exception.

Amanda:  I think if you approach a place with an open heart, there's a lot to love. Right?

Marco:  Yeah.

Amanda:  it's easy. You know, people have preconceived. I had preconceived notions about certain countries, and then I went to them and that, you know, it comes down to the same things everywhere. The people.

Marco:  Yeah, it does.

Amanda:  I mean, it comes down to the people. So, and the people were lovely in Dubai, certainly.

Marco:  So to get to the deep diving, Dubai is far.

Amanda:  So we stayed in a place called the Palm Jumeirah. And I haven't looked up what Jumeirah means. I think it's gotta mean beach.

Marco:  I'll look it up one day.

Amanda:  Because there's a Jumeirah. Jumeirah. I don't even know if I'm saying it right. we definitely need to go back and learn more. we're not experts in Dubai, that's for sure. After one, you know, extended long weekend there. But, I think we were there four days. But that said the very little that we did know. We knew that the Palm was this, you know, beach area, that it's manufactured to look like, you know, it's all filled in land that looks like a palm leaf, sort of with the stem in the middle, almost like a monstera leaf. A stem in the middle and then, fronds, and they're called the fronds. So if you want to go to Frond three, for example, there's. And it looks like all condos on the fronds, and then there's a crescent that circles it, and that's all resorts. and that's where we stayed.

Marco:  So I typed in, what does Jumeria mean? And Jumeirah Emirati is a coastal residential area of Dubai.

Amanda:  Okay.

Marco:  And it comprises low private dwellings and hotel developments. It is both expensive and large detached property. So it has both, as well as more modest townhomes in a variety of architectural styles.

Amanda:  So there's Jumeirah and then there's the Palm Jumeirah. Anyway, we were on the Palm, the crescent part of the palm that circles the fronds, to be exact. at quite a, to be honest, modest hotel that I Loved. It was, very beautiful. It wasn't the biggest, I'm sure. I mean, Dubai is almost known for its excess. Right. So, but we aren't, so. Which I just wanted something that I could go swimming on. A beach that, you know, for us, wouldn't break the bank. and it was perfect. It had a beautiful pool. It was half full, for two of the days we were there, and then the other two were weekend days. So that makes more sense that there were more people there. the beach was lovely. Really lovely, warm. The warmest water I've ever swam in. Ever, I think. And, in terms of a beach and then a beautiful, cool pool, and, it was really perfect. And it overlooked, the Gulf, and it was just beautiful. So we stayed there. But everything in Dubai is an hour from Dubai, you know, So I have

Marco:  another interpretation of what it means. Amanda.

Amanda:  Okay.

Marco:  The word jumeria is said to be loosely derived from the word jumer, which is said to mean hot burning charcoal, which describes the hot sand in the area.

Amanda:  And it was. And it was.

Marco:  It certainly was.


Marco: We went to Dubai for a few days to relax and explore

Amanda:  Marco, talk about. Well, should I talk more about the pool? I don't know that there's more to say.

Marco:  I think we need to get to the diving area. But I will say this.

Amanda:  Yeah.

Marco:  Walking to the pool without my slippers on.

Amanda:  My slippers. He says slippers like an old nona. And when you say slippers, what you

Marco:  mean is my Birkenstocks.

Amanda:  My. Most people wouldn't call their sandals slippers or their Birkenstocks slippers. But because you wear them in the house, that's what you call them. Just so we're clear, listen, the thing

Marco:  that I put on my feet, he

Amanda:  has a pair of Birkenstocks that are like water Birkenstocks. They're like, I don't know, silicone or plastic or whatever they're made from.

Marco:  And they're bright red, so I won't

Amanda:  lose them in the sand. Yeah, they're great that way. They're lightweight. They're Birkenstock, but they're nice lightweight.

Marco:  But I put my hand on the edge of the, marble pool to get in, and I almost burnt my hand.

Amanda:  I made a mistake and wanted to go get, my beach hat, I think. So if you can imagine a fairly typical resort, you know, you walk out and again, it's more of a boutique hotel. So it's 112 pools, right? And one little beach area versus, like, you know, the five pool expansive thing. But honestly, after a week of what we knew would be intense work. We just wanted to unwind for a few days and check out whatever we had time to check out in the city. Which is exactly what we did. But anyway, you open it up and there's sort of like a waiting pool, a swim up bar, and then a adult infinity pool. And then you know, that looks onto the beach and there's lots of lounge chairs on the beach. And so we were in the pool and I realized, I think it was my hat. I went to get or maybe sunscreen, I don't remember. And so my flip flops, were on the side of the pool edge. They were for everybody. Right. but I thought, oh, I'm just running out of my beach chair. So I got out of the pool. I knew the sand would be hot because I had already made that mistake of not leaving the sandals by the water, but leaving them at the beach chair. but I thought by the pool it would be okay. No, it was like I felt it on my feet after in a way that I was like, has this left a mark on my feet? I mean that heat is insane.

Marco:  It is.

Amanda:  It's really insane.

Marco:  So we drove from our hotel. I'm just going to take us to Dubai.

Amanda:  Diving deep dive Dubai.

Marco:  Deep dive to Dubai. And we drove for about 40 minutes, maybe a bit more.

Amanda:  I chose a 4 o' clock time. So let's be clear. I snorkeled the pool.

Marco:  Yes.

Amanda:  I, it was full transparency here. I'll speak in Canadian dollars because that's what we think in normally. I think it was like 700 or so to, to do the diving scuba. Yeah. And you can do an explore scuba which if you've ever gone on vacation wanted to do one of those things. They'll have like a beginner. Okay. You don't have your certificate, will take you down kind of scuba. I've done one of those once in Curacao actually. Highly recommended. Great experience. But I also knew from that experience that that would be fairly time consuming and I wasn't sure it's something I'd want to do with you. You weren't feeling up to it. And also financially there's quite a cost there. So I thought I'd rather spend the morning by the pool by the ocean and swimming as I love to. And then we'll leave at around 2ish and I'll get there for 4 and then I'll just snorkel that pool for an hour, see what I see and just get to experience it in Whatever level snorkeling will allow.

Marco:  Sure.

Amanda:  Which, by the way, was like 150 Canadian dollars. So much more reasonable.

Marco:  And this is 20, 24, dollars.

Amanda:  Right, exactly. So don't quote me 10 years from now when you listen to this and say, you gave me a bum steer, as we call it in this house.

Marco:  Yeah, so. And so, And I like to use it because we watch a show where they reference the year, so you don't get the.

Amanda:  Yeah. British shows. Yeah. So in any event, we drove. We got into the car at like 2:30. Great, we'll get there for 3:30. My snorkeling time is 4.


Amanda drove throughout Dubai, and she's an excellent Dubai driver

And, I drove throughout Dubai, by

Marco:  the way, Amanda drove the entire time in Dubai, and she's an excellent Dubai driver, which isn't easy.

Amanda:  No, it's not easy.

Marco:  I'm very grateful for your skills behind the wheel and for all the driving you did.

Amanda:  I am grateful that gas is fairly inexpensive in the uae and also that the air conditioning worked. It would have been a very different trip if we had none.

Marco:  So we pull into this beautiful sort of driveway to Deep Dive Dubai.

Amanda:  And it truly is in the middle of the desert, as are many things. And, we weren't sure because there's a big sports complex, which is interesting, too. But anyway, really in the. It feels like the end of the earth where you're going, but you see this tiny little sign, deep Dive Dubai. So you just keep going. And I was the only one at 4 o'. Clock.

Marco:  It was great.

Amanda:  I had the pool pretty much to myself, which was great. they do have wonderful instructors there. And, mine was lovely. I can't remember his name. I wish I could. but he was lovely. And, he actually, because there was no one else there, he was helping someone who just worked with them, who wanted to get better at swimming. What a pool to learn to swim in. And, I was like, let me in. They make you wear a wetsuit. That's just one of the regulation things. They give you a nice snorkel. And I was like. He could tell. I was like, just get me in this pool. I just want to explore.

Marco:  And they wanted to manage to wear flippers.

Amanda:  Yeah. And fins.

Marco:  Fins, Sorry.

Amanda:  Yeah, well, they're called flippers, too. but fins, flippers. I hate them. I don't like them. And I said, I will try. He goes, believe me, you're gonna love it with them. And I said, I don't think so, but I will trust you on this. And I did two passes and went okay, they're coming off. I tried.

Marco:  And what was lovely is on my end so not in the water. They have these big sort of aquarium style cutouts so you can see what's going on in the water. And because Amanda didn't wear her fins or her flippers, I could see exactly. She was in the water the entire time because everyone else had their flip flops.

Amanda:  I will post pictures of that now. I thought I was going quite deep down and I was. I was going about 8ft down to get photos where Mirko was dutifully, sweetly waiting with the phone to take some photos. But you can see just from the depth of that pool, it barely looks like I was under the surface. And I will say that was on Monday.

Marco:  Monday.

Amanda:  Yes, that was on Monday. And my head is still, like reeling. Reeling from the water pressure. The pressure in that pool is no joke. So I will say that.

Marco:  Was it cold in the water?

Amanda:  Yeah, it was.

Marco:  Okay.

Amanda:  Only because. It was. Only because I had been swimming in, you know, a warm bathtub.

Marco:  Right.

Amanda:  In, the palm jum area.

Marco:  Right.

Amanda:  But it was probably the same temperature, maybe a little cooler than the pool at the hotel. Sure. Just to give you that perspective.

Marco:  And of course, they're not heating that pool. It is so large, listeners. When I looked down from where I could see my viewing area to the bottom, it felt very deep.

Amanda:  And even within the divers, there's some dives where you only go to one. There's, there's stories. Right. It's like, it's like a building underwater. Right. So you can go all the way down to the further stories. but a lot of people just do the first few stories. For me, he showed me, you're not allowed to go further down than this, no matter how much you want to show off, which was fine.

Marco:  And every story, or every level, let's say, has a different sort of vignet to it too. And at the very bottom, they even have challenges if you're a, scuba diver who wants to try it where you can sort of take apart a, like a complex sort of thing.

Amanda:  They have like an escape room. There was a guy there who was checking off things. He had like a. He had a pad and he was swimming around me, under and around and checking off little things. So it was like in a, you know, find, like a treasure hunt underwater. Very cool place.


How was the snorkeling, Amanda? Did you enjoy it

Marco:  How was the snorkeling, Amanda? Did you enjoy it? Was it worth it?

Amanda:  I did. For me, it was. It was the experience I wanted and expected, I think. yeah, it was the experience I wanted. I was conscious of the fact that you weren't with me. I was conscious of the fact that I didn't want to push myself further than I was comfortable going, and that's what I wanted out of it that day. Now I will say I would love to go back and do a dive after I've done some other diving. I don't think that is where I want to do my first real dive. Okay. If that makes sense.

Marco:  You know, Amanda's a very strong swimmer, so I think heeding her advice, which is don't do more than you feel comfortable with when you're somewhere, is great advice.

Amanda:  I think me in my 20s, I would have been like, yeah, I'll spend the 700. but me today, I just want it. That's a cool thing I want to experience. And I've learned you do end up going back to places sometimes. So I like leaving something to come back to. So that's a thing I'll come back to in Dubai for sure. I love that.


Amanda shares her deep Dive Dubai experience with us

Marco:  Okay, so, Amanda, before we wrap up, I just want to ask you, what was this particular snorkeling experience like compared to snorkeling in seas, oceans, and lakes like you've done in the past?

Amanda:  For me, only a few times have I snorkeled. It's been a while since I've snorkeled, and I can't see the bottom or I can see the bottom, and it's an extreme length down. But it does play with your perception, because a pool, you have an expectation. With a pool now, you know what you're doing. But when you walk into a pool and then you know you're looking 12 stories, you're at the top of a building, it does play with your own personal perception of what things should be. that said, it isn't much different. It's still a pool. You can swim. It still has ledges that you can stand on. There's just the deep end is a whole lot deeper.

Marco:  There you go. Well, Amanda, thank you for sharing your deep Dive Dubai experience and letting people know both the prices and what it feels like. And, thank you, listeners, for being patient with us as we, A, recover, but also B, return to you, your homes, your ears, your devices, and we'll

Amanda:  tell you more about. That's one little aspect about this trip. You'll probably hear more about it in the next podcast.

Marco:  If you have any questions or if you have any show ideas, please let us know on our social media. You can find our social media the Insomnia project or Listen and Sleep for the various platforms until next time. We hope you were able to in fact, rest, listen and sleep.

In Lawns, Whippersnappers, and Fireworks, Oh My!, Marco and Amanda ease into a gently meandering conversation that begins with yard work and drifts into sparkling memories. The rhythmic whir of lawnmowers and the curious term “whippersnapper” set a playful tone before the discussion glides toward childhood recollections of sparklers and memorable fireworks displays. What starts as talk of trimming grass slowly blossoms into reflections on summer nights, neighbourhood sounds, and the quiet anticipation before a sky lights up.
As always, this calming podcast unfolds at an unhurried pace, offering a relaxing conversation designed to help you fall asleep, ease anxiety, or quiet racing thoughts. The topics remain light and familiar, making this episode perfect for background listening at bedtime or during a middle-of-the-night wake-up. There’s no booming finale here — just steady voices, soft humour, and warm seasonal memories to guide you gently toward rest.

​Whipersnappers and Fireworks
(Original airdate: July 3m 2024)

The Insomnia Project is the best podcast when your tooth is sore

Welcome to the Insomnia Project. Sit back, relax and listen as we have a calm conversation about the ordinary, mundane Things in life. Thank you for joining us. I'm, your host, Marco Timpano.

Amanda:  I'm right beside him, Amanda Barker.

Marco:  And we're on the squeaky table today.

Amanda:  Yeah, there it is.

Marco:  There it is. A little bit of squeak. You might hear some, vroom, vrooms, vroom, vrooms in the background because we're up north. But we are back on the air. We haven't been on for a couple of weeks.

Amanda:  Listen, we've been riding the waves of life these last few weeks. I was a little bit sick by a little bit. Quite a bit sick last weekend. But that has come and gone, thankfully. And, yeah, there's a few reasons. But, we're happy to be back here with you. Yeah.

Marco:  And if you're feeling under the weather, just know that we're here for you. With many episodes that you can check out in our catalog of the Insomnia Project. Thank you for joining us.

Amanda:  If you need a calm listen for your tum tum or your. Or your nose nose or your headache

Marco:  or whatever, or sore foot, sore tooth, you name it.

Amanda:  Sore tooth. We're the sore tooth. The best podcast when your tooth is sore. Sore.

Marco:  The Sore Tooth podcast, if you will.


I wanted to talk about cutting grass. Cutting grass is relaxing, right

so I wanted to talk about cutting grass. Cutting grass. Because I had to come.

Amanda:  That's not a euphemism.

Marco:  No, I don't know what that.

Amanda:  I don't know what the euphemism would be for cutting. Cutting grass.

Marco:  So I know that mow another person's grass means to pick up their. Their partner, their spouse, or their boyfriend or girlfriend. Yeah, we used to say, I'm not

Amanda:  gonna mow another person's lawn. Not grass.

Marco:  Okay, lawn grass, same thing.

Amanda:  I don't know. People have different lawns. my uncle used to say, m. Grass for weed. I think people back in the 70s used to say that.

Marco:  Yes. Yes.

Amanda:  Oh, that's a nice eye roll.

Marco:  Well, I mean, I don't know if our listeners want to hear that.

Amanda:  Well, they're probably thinking that because everyone had an uncle in the 70s that smoked some grass.

Marco:  Okay. Well, I was actually mowing the lawn. Cutting grass.

Amanda:  Tell us.

Marco:  So, I have a particular way that I like to cut the grass.

Amanda:  Okay.

Marco:  And that is much like when I vacuum, I like to have really straight, nice lines back and forth. So for me, that's pretty important. So I like to really be on it. But the. The grass here is quite, uneven, so it becomes tricky, and there's all kinds of twigs and branches I have to pick up Before. And sometimes I run over them with a lawnmower and it makes a terrible sound and it's not great for the lawnmower, so I try to be diligent with that. It's not easy to cut the grass here.

Amanda:  No, it isn't. Do you like a lawn that looks stripy? Like, you can tell it was just cut and you can see the stripes where the. Yeah, I prefer lawn mower went.

Marco:  Yeah, I prefer that.

Amanda:  Really?

Marco:  Yeah, I like that kind of look because it. I just know that it's even. And so I try to do that. Like, I won't necessarily do the entire length of the lawn that needs to be cut. I might do it in chunks.

Marco:  But I. I prefer that striped look.

Amanda:  Wow, interesting. Now, did you enjoy that as a chore growing up?

Marco:  Not really, no.

Amanda:  Did you have to do it?

Marco:  I did. I did mow the lawn when I was a kid, but I used to hate using the Whippersnapper and we.

Amanda:  Can you tell me more about that? Because I'm not sure if I know what a Whippersnapper is.

Marco:  a weed whacker.

Amanda:  Okay.

Marco:  I think a Whippersnapper is a different. There was an older gentleman that used to call it a whippersnapper who used to cut the grass in this area. And so he would say, I, use my whipper snapper. And so it made me laugh. And so I started to call it a whipper snapper as well.

Amanda:  Okay.

Marco:  Anyway, so this Whippersnapper was pretty amazing because it's on a battery and it's very light.

Amanda:  The one you grew up with?

Marco:  No, no, the one I grew up with was weighed more than me. It was like bench pressing every time I had to use it. So this one here is light as a feather. And because it's stiff as a board. It was. It wasn't stiff as a board, but it was light and easy to use and quite fun because I've never used a whippersnapper quite like this before. And I could go into all the little nooks and crannies that I needed to get to, so.

Amanda:  And you snap the whip.

Marco:  I snapped that whip and I cut those weeds down. And you know, it was really great, I have to say.

Amanda:  Do you find it relaxing?

Marco:  Oh, that's a good question. I don't know if I find it. You know what? I enjoy looking at it once it's done. And let me tell you, the weeds were high up here. So before I even mowed the lawn, I went with the whippersnapper. All across the lawn to trim it down a bit. And then I mowed the lawn. Yeah. It was a lot of work. Fortunately, it was a cool day. It wasn't so hot. The sun wasn't out, so it was actually quite temperate to do that. And that's the best time for me, to be, mowing the grass.


Did you ever have to mow grass? Yeah. I hated mowing. No matter what I did, it was never a good enough job

Amanda:  Okay.

Marco:  Did you ever have to mow grass?

Amanda:  Yeah.

Marco:  Oh, you did a lot.

Amanda:  Yeah.

Marco:  That's why I Don't tell me about your mowing the grass experience.

Amanda:  I hated mowing. No matter what I did, it was never a good enough job.


Did you have a tractor when you moved to Canada from Massachusetts

Marco:  Did you have a tractor when we moved to Canada?

Amanda:  We did.

Marco:  Okay. That's what I thought, because you had a lot of land, right?

Amanda:  Yeah. But in Massachusetts, we. We had a yard, that was not dissimilar to what we have here.

Marco:  Okay.

Amanda:  And, that was a push mower, for sure. so that's the one that I used to get tasked with in Canada. We had a ride one, but my dad seemed to do that. I don't actually remember. I don't think I ever once got on that. As soon as I could get out of mowing the lawn, I made sure I did. I would take on other chores. If it was between mowing the lawn and doing pretty much anything else. I would do the. Anything else. I'm not sure why. I don't like.

Marco:  That's fireworks. In case you're wondering what the rat tat tat behind us is, that's fireworks. Because it is Canada Day weekend. So, people. Yeah. Today's Canada Day. So I don't know why right now, when the.

Amanda:  Why people are celebrating their Canadian heritage.

Marco:  Can't see anything at this moment.

Amanda:  No. I don't know why it's. I know it's brightly and sunny out there, so I don't know why you fire off fireworks in the sun.

Marco:  But where's the best place you've ever seen fireworks?

Amanda:  Boston.

Marco:  Oh, really?

Amanda:  Plymouth, Massachusetts.

Marco:  Oh, tell me about it.

Amanda:  Yeah. Or was it Boston? I'm trying to remember. No, it was Plymouth.

Marco:  Okay.

Amanda:  right in the bay there. Oh, they're fantastic. They are obviously a big display of American, patriotism.

Marco:  Sure.

Amanda:  And I remember we had. I went with my voice teacher, lived there, who was friends with my mom, and so we went to see her and all her friends, and she had this friend, this woman who got really into Fourth of July.

Marco:  Okay.

Amanda:  And she would dress. She dressed as the Statue of Liberty. She painted her face. She had the torch. She put on a head Thing.

Marco:  And not in a parade, not in an ironic way, just to go to the fireworks.

Amanda:  She dressed okay to go to the fireworks. And it was like Maureen's crazy friend. I don't remember who this woman was. And she was like, all right, is everybody ready? And then we walked down to the bay.

Marco:  Was your mother not embarrassed to be around?

Amanda:  No, she was excited.

Marco:  Okay.

Amanda:  And, because my mom liked the fireworks and we went down and I just remember what a wonderful and fun time it was. And I was of an age where it left an impression. But beyond that, I had a summer where I lived in Monaco.

Marco:  Oh.

Amanda:  And the fireworks in Monaco were incredible.

Marco:  Really?

Amanda:  Yeah. And I, I think I've talked about them on this program before. but I'll say it again because it's been a. It's been a minute, as the kids say.

Marco:  I don't think they say that anymore.

Amanda:  Someone says it. People in Los Angeles seem to say it a lot. They also say, I'm not mad at that a lot.

Marco:  Oh, when they like something.

Amanda:  Yeah, I hear it on TV a lot. I'm not mad at that. Like, when did we start saying that anyway?

Marco:  Monaco.

Amanda:  All I could think of was Whipper snapper.

Marco:  That's where my brain is. Listen, that'd be a great name for a firework. The Whip. Now we're gonna lay up the Whippersnapper.

Amanda:  but anyway, yeah, Monaco would. They did one of those things where they'd have a festival of fireworks. And every. I think it was Tuesday night they would. Or Wednesday night they'd have fireworks every. And because it's a small bay where they would light them, all the car alarms would go off.

Marco:  Oh, wow.

Amanda:  Yeah.


Both of these firework displays were set to music

So you'd get sort of a sideshow of all the car alarms going off. and they were incredible. And both, both of these firework displays were set to music. So to me, it's really incredible when you can time the fireworks to the music. So those are mine.

Marco:  I've never been the biggest fan of fireworks. They've never done anything for me. But you and I were in Disney World once.

Marco:  And we stayed behind. I think we had a pass that allowed us to stay later or something. And so we were like, we're going to watch the grand fireworks. And this particular firework display, they also had things floating like little, what would you call them? Like floats? Like.

Amanda:  So the one you're talking about now is Epcot Center. The, the fireworks at Epcot Fireworks. Those are, those are very specific fireworks.

Marco:  So fireworks at Epcot Center. I Say, Disney World for all of them?

Amanda:  Well, because we've seen them in the Magic Kingdom, too. That's why I wanted to be clear on what fireworks you were talking about.

Marco:  And this one here, they would have these, like, animated floats in the water floating by.

Amanda:  Yeah.

Marco:  And the thing I remember was one of the floats didn't operate.

Amanda:  Oh, really?

Marco:  Remember, it was stuck. It was frozen. So it wasn't moving in a mechanical way. It was just like. We're just, like, watching. I'm like, well, it's supposed to do something. And then someone from who worked there was like, yeah, this one's not working right now.

Amanda:  Yeah, I do remember that. They're a little bit of a letdown.

Marco:  yeah. But the fireworks themselves were very impressive because they were like, you know, the beautiful ones that shimmer as they float down those.

Amanda:  The best fireworks you've ever seen?

Marco:  I think so, yeah.

Amanda:  Okay.

Marco:  Or I should say, do you remember Toronto had this thing that was sponsored by, if you can believe it, cigarette companies, and it was called the Festival of Lights?

Amanda:  I think I do, because the company I work for sponsored it. The year that cigarette companies were no longer able to sponsor it, then the company I worked for sponsored it, and I was their mascot. So I went to the press conference saying that we were the new sponsor.

Marco:  And do you remember what it was called? Was it called Festival of Lights?

Amanda:  I think so. It was Festival Fest. I think it was the light. I think it was Festival of Lights.

Marco:  Let's just assume it was called Festival of Lights. And what they would do is they would light up. Sure. They would. They would have different countries compete, and they would put on this firework display, and they would also have it lit to music. So they would pipe in music, and every country would have, like, music from. From their land and. Or from their composers and songwriters and whatnot. And it was fantastic to see because the fireworks were lit to the music and would go off at certain moments in the music. And, you know, there's those, you know, Battle of 1812 type overtures and stuff. I don't think that's what it's called. But, you know, those. Those overtures that are really dramatic and the fireworks would go.

Amanda:  But absolutely, I say, I'm looking it up now, and it just wants to tell me. Sorry, it just wants to tell me about cigarettes.

Marco:  Okay. we do not recommend smoking cigarettes or smoking them around fireworks.

Amanda:  but that's what they did in Monaco as well. It was the same thing. And so when I moved to Toronto, I went down to the fireworks Because I knew about them because we were sponsoring them. So I knew it was a big deal to go down and see them again once a week, every week. Right?

Marco:  Yeah. The fireworks. For me, here's why I don't love fireworks. After a while it's the same thing

Amanda:  if they're not well done.

Marco:  But even so, it's like, okay, crack a green one, crack a red one.

Amanda:  Okay, okay.

Marco:  You know, a silvery one. And then it's the same thing over and over again. I Don't like the noise either.

Amanda:  Of fireworks.

Marco:  Yeah, it can be kind of loud.

Amanda:  I believe that fireworks are best and should be kept only to people who are licensed to put on a display like the ones you and I are talking about. What I don't love are average people who think fireworks are a great plan for their backyard. Well, as long not a fan.

Marco:  Well, listen, if they're careful and they do it properly, that's fair. But I'm still not a fan of it. I think fireworks should be seen and not heard. But, back to my Whippersnapping.

Amanda:  Yeah, I don't know how we got it.


Whippersnapper would be a great name for a firework

Whippersnapper would be a great name for a firework. Did we say that?

Marco:  Yeah, we did say that. Okay. Amanda's attention span. Amanda was at the beach all day.

Amanda:  I was. I have beach brain right now.

Marco:  So.

Amanda:  I was also thinking it would be a great name for a dachshund Whippersnapper. Oh yeah, that would be right. Hey, Whippersnapper.

Marco:  Not so much. Not so great for a nickname for a.

Amanda:  Wait, did you say dash hound or dachshund?

Marco:  So I say sausage dog. No, I say. I say dachshund, I think.

Amanda:  But it's dachshund. Right?

Marco:  Is how you pronounce M. I guess it's German.

Amanda:  but viper snipper.

Marco:  The funny thing about Whippersnapper is you don't have to pick up after the whipper snapper. But with the lawnmower. I had the lawnmower bag in and it got full quick. And so I had to take the bag of cut lawn grass clippings, if you will, and put them in a, What do you call those bags that you.

Amanda:  A yard waste bag.

Marco:  Yard waste bag.

Amanda:  Don't you. With the lawn, doesn't it leave like a trail of grass cuttings and you have to rake it? That was the part I hated.

Marco:  Not if you have the bag attached. It goes into the bag, but the

Amanda:  bag fills up and you have to

Marco:  empty the bag and it's heavy and Sometimes grass is a little bit moist and so it makes it even heavier. So I did all that. I whipper, snappered, cut the grass and now it looks fantastic. Yeah, and picking up those branches was not fun.

Amanda:  I can't imagine.


I was nominated to take the three children down to the beach this weekend

Marco:  So tell me what your beach day was like.

Amanda:  Well, was it with a lot of snappery? but I was nominated to be the one to take the three children down to the beach. so it was our niece Mia, her good friend Adele, who's a year younger. So Mia is, Well, we don't need to get into this. But anyway, the preacher young, they're, they're, they're not quite teens, so they're in that age. And then our, our nine year old nephew. so it was two shrieking girls and one pretty crafty nine year old.

Marco:  Okay.

Amanda:  they don't like the beach closest to here because it's all rocks and they don't travel light. These kids. They, they want a wagon filled with things.

Marco:  Now the rocks are soft rocks and they're only on the beach, not in the water once you get in a certain point.

Amanda:  What does soft rocks mean? They definitely feel hard on a foot.

Marco:  Sorry. Smooth rocks. They're not like.

Amanda:  I was like, what's a soft rock?

Marco:  Sorry, Soft rock.

Amanda:  Ignatius rock. I, mean, they're hard enough when you're stepping on them.

Marco:  Sure.

Amanda:  so they didn't want to go on the rocky beach. They wanted a sandy beach. So they're like, there's this trail, the Silver Birch trail. And I was like, that's far, guys. But I was like, this wasn't my beach plan, it was yours. So you tell me where you want to go. I am but your servant, children. So they had this plan to go the Silver Birch. And to be fair, adele, the, 11 year old decided she was going to pull the wagon. She's a very sturdy 11 year old and she was ready to pull it. So she pulled the wagon and pulled it all the way down to the beach. And then I finally said, give it to me, let me do it. So I did it and I found a place next to some people that were having a lovely time and blasting some music, which I don't always love, but I kind of felt it today. Sure. And I was like, oh, bonus, we get soundtrack. It was very busy.

Marco:  Okay.

Amanda:  Very busy because it was really cold this weekend and today it wasn't. It was nice. So everybody was there. so it's quite crowded. But I was between music, music, 30 somethings. So music hipsters and then a bunch of maybe 60 somethings.

Marco:  Okay. So there was a great cross section

Amanda:  of pages and I thought these are good people to sit next to to on either side. So the kids had boogie boards.

Marco:  Oh, okay.

Amanda:  the girls did. So they wanted to go on the boogie board. So I let them do their thing. It's a very shallow beach and it can be shallow for a long time. So it can look like kids are going very far out. But I told them the rule was you have to be able to touch the bottom.

Marco:  Okay.

Amanda:  That was my rule.

Marco:  That's a good rule.

Amanda:  Yeah. And of course they'd be like, I'm on my tippy tipping goes. I'm like, fine, that's fine. But you have to be able to touch the bottom only because you have sort of three levels of swimming with these kids.

Marco:  Sure.

Amanda:  but once the girls had the boogie boards, I wasn't as concerned because they, I knew they had a flotation device that was connected to their wrist.

Marco:  And where were you?

Amanda:  I was with a nine year old in the water. Yes. He wanted to go as deep as he could and I said, okay, that's fine, you lead the way. Which I don't think he gets told that a lot. So he was like, okay. And then it got a little bit daunting for him and cold. So then he would grab my. When he, when he got a little scared, he grabbed my hand. Okay. And then he kind of grabbed both of his hands on mine and then kicked his. Used his arm strength to like pull himself up and he was laughing. so we went pretty far. And then he decided he wanted to build some sand castles. And that's suited me just fine because I have this book that I'm reading.


Do you enjoy reading on the beach? Yeah, who doesn't

So.

Marco:  Do you enjoy reading on the beach?

Amanda:  Yeah, who doesn't? It's the best. Reading on the beach is the best.

Marco:  If you were to pick your three ideal places to read, one would be

Amanda:  the beach, one would be a hammock, and one would be anywhere I can lounge with a fan blowing on me.

Marco:  Oh really?

Amanda:  Yeah.

Marco:  So you could, you could do two of those. You could do hammock on the beach.

Marco:  Or hammock with a fan.

Amanda:  That's true.

Marco:  Which of those two would you, would

Amanda:  you pick or beach with a fan?

Marco:  Could you do beach? Oh, I guess you could do like,

Amanda:  I mean the wind, the, the gentle breezes are the fan really fair. So you could probably do all three if you wanted to. which do I. What were you gonna ask me?

Marco:  Which of Those options. Would you prefer beach on a Hammock or Hammock with. With a fan?

Amanda:  I don't. I like them all.


You're reading a ridiculous book right now. Tell us about it

Okay, so I'm reading a ridiculous book right now.

Marco:  Tell us about it.

Amanda:  Should I say the name of it?

Marco:  Of course. Our listeners love to know what you're reading.

Amanda:  I say it's ridiculous because I don't mean to disparage, A, the writer or B, any of the people who are fans of this writer, of which I think there are many. I actually don't remember the name of the writer, but the book is called the Selection, and it's sort of Hunger Games meets the Bachelor meets Bridgerton.

Marco:  Okay. Now, when you first started reading it, you weren't so impressed.

Amanda:  You were like, no, it's a young adult fiction, so I'm not. I am neither young nor really an adult. Am I allowed to laugh at that?

Marco:  Sure. But I mean, how did this book get selected for you?

Amanda:  So the selection was selected by Laura, who's in my book club, who said that she wasn't reading anymore. And everyone in my book club kind of. It became a thing where people weren't reading the books. They picked the books, and then they wouldn't read them or one person would or whatever. That's, fine by me. It doesn't matter to me. I'll always read them.

Marco:  Sure.

Amanda:  So. And I like having a book club because I am going to read things that I would never, ever pick up. And this book is definitely an example of that.

Marco:  And you've read things that our listeners have suggested, suggested, too.

Amanda:  Absolutely. And incorporated them actually into that book club.

Marco:  Oh, I didn't realize that.

Amanda:  Yeah. For example, Remarkably Bright Creatures was my book, last year. And that was. That was my book club pick. And that was straight from.

Marco:  And did your book club like that book?

Amanda:  They loved it.

Marco:  Oh, great.

Amanda:  Yeah. great.


So Amanda was reading this book, the Selection. What made the flip for this young adult book for you

Marco:  So Amanda was reading this book, the Selection. I don't know who the author is.

Amanda:  Also, the. The COVID makes me embarrassed because I look like an idiot reading this. It's just not. I. I don't even watch the Bachelor. So it's just like. And I don't judge anyone who does.

Marco:  Right.

Amanda:  Any kind of guilty pleasure. But it's like, I don't know.

Marco:  Describe the COVID It's a young girl

Amanda:  in a gown looking mysterious. I mean, it looks ridiculous.

Marco:  So Amanda's reading this book, and I would check in with her, and she wasn't enjoying it. Wasn't enjoying it. Then there was a tipping point. And you're like, I'm really enjoying Now

Amanda:  I can't wait to get back to it. So there you go.

Marco:  What made the flip for this young adult book for you?

Amanda:  They've done the selection part. Now she has to go and compete for the prince's love. Like, that's what this is. Okay. Yeah.

Marco:  Who do you hope she gets?

Amanda:  Well, there's only one. The Bachelor. So it's like the prince is the bachelor princess.

Marco:  The Bachelor. And you have all these people.

Amanda:  Hunger Games because she has to go for her family to compete because her family doesn't have any m. Food. So basically what happened was Laura, in my book club, she. She had said to her husband, I'm just not reading and I want to make it my New Year's resolution to read. And he said, I don't think you're reading because I don't think you like any of the books that your book club is selection. You know, because we're doing. We tend to do a lot of, heady books, award winning books.

Marco:  Sure.

Amanda:  and that, you know, if I. If something has won an award, I'm more likely to read it. If something is, you know, from an established author, I'm more likely to read it. And so he, looked up all the things she likes. Oh, and said, what? M. You know, my wife likes Bridgerton, the Hunger Games, the Bachelor, the Bachelor, and God knows what else. And came up with this series of books and said, this is recommended. You should like these. And he bought it for her.

Marco:  Okay.

Amanda:  And then she read it. And then another girl, and she loved it. And so she's like, this is my book. Read it or don't. But this is what I. Because I want to read for pleasure.

Marco:  Okay.

Amanda:  Again. And so then another girl who wasn't at that book club meeting said, hey, Laura, do you want to explain your selection to me? Because I wasn't there for that. And I. I'm dying to know why you picked that book.

Marco:  That's just a transcend driving by, just in case you're wondering.

Amanda:  And so Laura's like, I know, I'm sorry. To which Jean said, oh, no, I've read it cover to cover. I loved it. So here's, that it's become like a guilty pleasure book. So. And now I'm really enjoying it. I mean, I would have never in a million years have bought it. I would have never picked it. Even out of a free library, I wouldn't have picked it.

Marco:  That's the beauty of books.

Amanda:  Right? But it's a book club book, so I made myself read it and Now I'm completely invested.

Marco:  Do you remember the name of the author? In case anybody.

Amanda:  I have it over there, I can go get it or I can look it up on my Goodreads.

Marco:  I will say this. I don't know if we've mentioned this on the podcast before, but a good friend of ours was having a very special birthday and she had said that now that her kids are grown, she wants to go back into reading books because she didn't. There was a time period where she used to read quite a bit and then she stopped reading and she's like, this year I'm going to make it my mission to read books. And so we asked her, we said, what type of books do you like? And our good friend, her name is Nadine, said she likes, mystery books and Agatha Christie type books. Or what's that guy, James Patterson? Is it him or is it the

Amanda:  other Patterson and John Grisham?

Marco:  John Grisham types of books. So Amanda and I, they were having this big birthday. We went to a used bookstore and we bought her in that genre, 12 books of various authors, various years that took place and we gift wrapped each one and wrote a month on it. And then on her birthday we gave her the stack of books, one per month in the genre.

Marco:  That she enjoys. And she doesn't know what the books are. She just opens up the month and reads the book from that month.


The Year of Magical Thinking has 80,000 reviews on Goodreads

Amanda:  Okay. So the author of the selection and then it says in brackets the selection number one. So I think the name of the series is the selection. And this is the first book of the series, is Kira Cass, that's who the, the author. And it has, it has four stars out of five on Goodreads, which is not easy to do, friends.

Marco:  So really?

Amanda:  Yeah, that means a lot of. And a lot of people. Oh my goodness, it is 80,000 reviews on Goodreads. So like people are reading this book.

Marco:  Sure.

Amanda:  I mean, and I'm one of those people and I'm not, I mean I, I'm not ashamed. It's just not. Wouldn't have been my norm, that's for sure.

Marco:  I remember I picked up Joan Didion's book A. M. Year of Magical Thinking.

Amanda:  The Year of Magical Thinking. Yeah.

Marco:  And I thought it was a self help kind of book, an encouragement book. I don't know, I thought it was that and it's not. It's actually quite a sad book. But it was so wonderfully written and yes, once again, it's not a. If you were to tell me what the book was about. Prior to me picking it up, I probably wouldn't have read it. But I picked it up and I read it, and I so enjoyed it, that. That I want to read more of her books, actually.


Amanda wants to read all 75 Agatha Christie novels

But now, and I'm going to end on this, Amanda, I, and our listeners know that I love a library. I want to read Agatha Christie's book books in the order in which they were published.

Amanda:  How many books is that?

Marco:  I think she wrote 22.

Amanda:  Oh, that's it.

Marco:  Oh, maybe more. But I want. I don't know if I'll enjoy them, and maybe I'll only read one, but, you know, Agatha Christie is always named and, you know, people love her, and all these movies are being made and the Mouse Trap this and Death in Venice that. Right. And I'm kind of like, I want to read these books and see if I'll enjoy the books. And most of them, or a lot of them, I believe, have been made into movies. So I want to read the book and then see the movie. I watched that one that was filmed with Kenneth Branagh playing Poirot or Poirot, and, I thought it was a little bit. Meh. I don't know. He didn't do it for me. That particular.

Amanda:  What was that Murder?

Marco:  on the Orient Express. We saw it at the movies, I think. Yeah.

Amanda:  So. So are you ready? She's written 75 novels. Okay. Including 66 detective novels and 14 short story collections.

Marco:  Well, good.

Amanda:  I should. Are you gonna read all 75?

Marco:  I'm gonna. I'm. I'm not gonna write it in stone, but I will endeavor to read. Or I'm gonna read the first one and I'll see how I feel. I'm. I'm the type of person, unlike Amanda. Amanda, if she committed to this, would read all.

Amanda:  I would read all 75. If it. I would have to find the ones out of print. I would go crazy, and I would do it, but I would make myself crazy doing it.

Marco:  Unlike me, who could read three chapters and say, I'm done, and never go back.

Amanda:  you could have the lofty goal and then go, that's all I needed.

Marco:  It's true. That's how we're different. Anyways, that's also where we're gonna leave you today. So I hope you're dreaming with whippersnappers in the background and the soft sounds of fireworks at this point. Until next time, we hope you enjoyed this episode of the Insomnia Project. Please tell a friend to listen if you think they would enjoy this podcast or give us a five star review. Wherever you listen to this podcast until next time, we hope you were able to listen and sleep.

In Papaya Seeds and Pepper Mills, Amanda and Marco drift through a gently winding conversation that begins with a watermelon salad mishap and somehow ends up in the spice aisle. Marco reflects on the challenge of choosing a perfectly ripe watermelon, leading to a calm exploration of salad-making rituals and pantry staples like honey and propolis. Along the way, they consider the humble peppermill and why freshly cracked pepper can quietly elevate even the simplest meal.
The episode meanders further into papaya seeds — can you eat them? — and a lighthearted discussion about bikinis and finding the right fit, all handled with their usual easygoing tone. They even ponder whether hosts should try sleeping in their own spare room to better understand the guest experience, turning an ordinary household question into a soothing reflection.
As always, this calming podcast unfolds at an unhurried pace, offering a relaxing conversation designed to help you fall asleep, ease anxiety, or quiet racing thoughts. It’s perfect for background listening at bedtime or during a middle-of-the-night wake-up. Let the everyday details and steady banter guide you gently toward rest.

​Papaya Seeds and Pepper Mills
(Original airdate: August 28, 2024)

Welcome to the Insomnia Project. I'm Amanda Barker and Marco Timpano

Welcome to the Insomnia Project. Sit back, relax and listen as we have a calm conversation about mundane things to hopefully help you find your way to sleep. I'm Your host, Marco Timpano.

Amanda:  I'm Amanda Barker.

Marco:  Amanda, we haven't recorded for a while because I haven't been feeling very well, so.

Amanda:  So Marco was ill and I didn't want to share. This is a small, modest booth and we share air in here, so we took precautions. And you slept in the spare room, which I'm sure was a real fun time for you.

Marco:  Oh, yeah. It's always nice to sleep in the spare room because you get to see or feel what your guests go through.

Amanda:  And what are our guests going through? Well.

Marco:  I think they have a very comfortable bed with a very comfortable situation, set up there.

Amanda:  There's a great TV in there.

Marco:  Yeah, I don't love the pillows that are in there, I'll say that much.

Amanda:  Okay.

Marco:  But otherwise I think everything's fine.

Amanda:  Okay.

Marco:  you don't want it too comfortable for your guests or they'll stay longer.

Amanda:  Fair enough. Our guests are the ones who listen to this podcast.

Marco:  It's true.

Amanda:  My family. So guests, please. We do want it comfortable for you. Please don't.

Marco:  But not too close.

Amanda:  And it now has a nice TV in it.

Marco:  It's true.

Amanda:  For those who want that. we talked about our bed last time, and I'm enjoying it.

Marco:  Good.

Amanda:  I'm just gonna say I'm really enjoying it. So far so good. Knock on wood.


Marco is in constant search of the perfect watermelon salad

so, yeah, we haven't recorded, so sorry for the delay on that. But you're feeling better now?

Marco:  I'm feeling better now.

Amanda:  I'm sharing the air with you now.

Marco:  Sharing the air with me now.

Amanda:  Our guests have a TV now in the spare room.

Marco:  They can share the air with us too.

Amanda:  And the cable. And, we just had a nice late August lunch.

Marco:  Oh, Amanda, you made such a wonderful lunch. Don't.

Amanda:  Simplest thing ever.

Marco:  Listeners, if you are like me, I'm in constant search of the perfect watermelon and I can never find it. I always pick one that's over or

Amanda:  under, like it's Marco's epic search.

Marco:  And all I want is a perfectly ripe watermelon. And all I get is. Usually I get ones that are overripe.

Amanda:  Oh, really?

Marco:  Yeah. And on the odd, get underripe. But I tend to get overripe, which I don't love at all. And I'm wondering if our listeners have any tips with regards to, watermelon salad.

Amanda:  We bang on the fruit, we listen to it. We've done all that.

Marco:  We look at the shape, we look at the color.

Amanda:  Nothing seems to get us there. But this one I Think was under ripe, right?

Marco:  This one was under yes.

Amanda:  Which for me makes a perfect watermelon salad.

Marco:  It's true. So if you have the same dilemma as me, where it's like, I can't really eat these watermelons with the joy that I want to, Amanda can. Amanda has, for me, made a salad that makes me very joyful.

Amanda:  I mean, I think we've talked about it before. My watermelon drama comes from the fact that you buy these watermelons.

Marco:  Here we go.

Amanda:  I am not a food waster. I try not to be. I try to be pretty frugal and also respectful of all the food that we bring into this home. And so, you know, you cut a slice of watermelon, you cut the thing in half, have a slice, cry in disappointment, and then the rest of it I'm left to contend with. And they are big, and they take up a lot of space. And you have to put them in the fridge, really, because otherwise it becomes little festa de fruit fly.

Marco:  Fruit fly palace.

Amanda:  Yeah. So in the fridge it went, and it's taken up a lot of space. And so today I got on sale. This week I hit some great end of the day dairy sales, I'm happy to say, for cheese, sour cream, a few other things. And, I had this marked down. Cojita cheese. I think that's how you say it. Cohita.

Marco:  Yeah, sure.

Amanda:  Mexican cheese. Anyway. Fresh Mexican cheese. Oh, my gosh. So good.

Marco:  It's a bit salty.

Amanda:  A bit salty.

Marco:  Kind of like, If you don't have it available in recipes, you can substitute feta for it.

Amanda:  Well, feta is usually what you put with watermelon because of the high salt. But I actually went looking for feta, and it was really expensive. And this cojita cheese was like, end of day markdown. So about that. And we have mint, growing out back. now, mind you, it's a pretty. It's a different kind of mint.

Marco:  I want to say that's chocolate mint. It's called.

Amanda:  No, I think it's a pretty stark, like, peppermint.

Marco:  It's a strong mint that way.

Amanda:  It's like an astringent mint. So I used it sparingly. Some maldon salt, as, you know, olive oil, some olive oil, a pasta. That's it. And, with, I grilled some chicken. That was our lunch. Very good.

Marco:  So mint, watermelon, the cheese, olive oil, salt. You could put pepper, too. Pepper goes nicely.

Amanda:  I did put pepper. Yeah, I forgot about that. We have the end of, like, A year, maybe two years ago, a very good friend of ours gave you a basket for your birthday.

Marco:  Oh, that's true.

Amanda:  Full of foods. And there was, this pepper, like three different color peppercorn, pepper grinder thing in it. So I have been using that for pretty much every meal and, it's lasted a long time.

Marco:  we have a fancy peppercorn mill that we got that I really like. And here's a tip. Okay, so this episode might be the peppercorn mill tip episode if you want

Amanda:  to

Marco:  jazz up your meal. Fresh ground peppercorn, I think is one easy way to do so. And you need a quality pepper mill. Doesn't mean it has to be the most expensive.


Invest in a good peppercorn mill. And then have it near your food

But I think you need the pepper mill that allows you to monitor the size of the grind of the pepper. People like me prefer a coarser or thicker ground. Some people prefer very fine pepper. It's all to taste, right? So if you like fine pepper, you don't like the feel of a bit of that grit that you might get from peppercorn grindings, you'll go with a finer grind. Invest in a good peppercorn mill.

Amanda:  Pepper mill I believe they're called.

Marco:  I was losing peppercorn mill. I was losing my breath between the corn mill. Yeah, I was losing my. I had to catch my breath there. And. And so I think that's a great investment.

Amanda:  And.

Marco:  And then have it near your food in the kitchen or where you eat. Just have it nearby. Give yourself a little grind. For me it is, it makes all the difference versus, you know, pepper that you shake out of a pepper shaker. That for me is like, no, Margo,

Amanda:  you're making me laugh so much.

Marco:  Why?

Amanda:  Well, you're talking like, I don't. It's gonna sound rude when I. So I don't wanna sound rude.

Marco:  Well, you gotta sound rude. Now my listeners are gonna be like, what. What does she have to say to him?

Amanda:  Well, you're ta, ah, you're talk. Do all the cooking or any of the cooking.

Marco:  I do eating. I don't.

Amanda:  You do all the eating? Yes.

Marco:  and that comes just before you eat. So.

Amanda:  But also, I mean, I think salt and pepper, like those are the two most basic spices. Like telling people to put pepper on their food.

Marco:  I'm not telling people to put pepper. I'm telling them to put fresh ground pepper. Okay, so that's the difference.

Amanda:  Because you can change restaurant style.

Marco:  Well, yeah, in a nice restaurant where they come over and they grind it for you.

Amanda:  Sketch right where the guy comes and he Keeps grinding the pepper onto the food.


Amanda Barker: I tolerate watermelon because I love watermelon

Marco:  but back to the watermelon.

Amanda:  Yes. Which had fresh ground pepper on it. yes.

Marco:  Do you like watermelon? Because I know. I'm a big fan.

Amanda:  I love watermelon.

Marco:  Oh, you do? I wasn't sure because it made it sound like. No. It made it sound like I'm the one who's in search of perfect watermelon. You're like, I'll tolerate it.

Amanda:  I tolerate it because. Did I just really hit that T?

Marco:  Yes, you did, but it's fine.

Amanda:  I tolerate it. he gave me this look that basically told me, you just hit that T really hard. I could feel it. I tolerate it because I love watermelon. I love it. It's maybe my favorite fruit. I don't even know if you knew that.

Marco:  I did not know that. I thought mango was your favorite fruit.

Amanda:  Mango.

Marco:  I feel like I have mango. I feel like I have episodes.

Amanda:  What are you talking?

Marco:  Where you say mango is your favorite fruit?

Amanda:  No, mango is a very divisive papaya.

Marco:  Papaya is your favorite food.

Amanda:  Papaya is my favorite.

Marco:  Which, by the way, you can put pepper on papaya.

Amanda:  You could also do that with cohita cheese mint. And call yourself, Amanda Barker. Making lunch.

Marco:  I also think, if I'm not mistaken, that the seeds in a papaya are very peppery and they can be used.

Amanda:  You say this, but I have looked it up, and I've never found that. But I think as a child, maybe you saw it and thought that.

Marco:  Why is it as a child?

Amanda:  I think because I think that's something a child would do. Because the seeds and papaya look like peppercorns. But let me tell you, they're not.

Marco:  If you take a papaya seed, I

Amanda:  understand it looks like a pepper.

Marco:  No, no. I think they taste like a peppercorn too.

Amanda:  They don't. And also, no one does that. Okay, but you've told me that many times about these pepper. Now you're looking it up.

Marco:  Might I remind you that you told the world that only Canada has bagged milk?

Amanda:  I don't know if I said it quite like that.

Marco:  No. All right, folks.

Amanda:  I said it's. Well, anyway, I think I probably. Well, maybe I did. I don't know. then I stand by doubling down the packed milk. no. I don't know. You've always told me that. I've never found anything that has suggested that.

Marco:  Okay? So here on just a random search, the question becomes, can you eat papaya seeds?

Amanda:  And are they, like, peppercorns?

Marco:  Here's what they say papaya seeds are edible and contain fiber, healthy fatty acids and other beneficial compounds, including polyphenols and flavonoids. Who doesn't want a good flavonoid in their life?

Amanda:  And favorite wrapper from the 90s.

Marco:  And these, components provide a health benefit.

Amanda:  Yeah. And where does it say dry them out and put them in your pepper mill and see how it works out for you?

Marco:  I never said put them. I don't advise putting anything but peppercorns in your pepper mill.


You say you love watermelon. Have you ever grown watermelon? Yes, I know it's a vine

Amanda:  Back to my love of watermelon.

Marco:  Here's the thing. I have to edit this episode, and you, with all the letter P's in it, is going to be a nightmare for me.

Amanda:  I didn't bring it up, okay? I really didn't bring it up. You're like, I see your watermelon and I give you papaya.

Marco:  So you are saying that you love watermelon.

Amanda:  I do. My thing with watermelon is it is a massive commitment. And we are two. We are but two people. There's a reason people bring watermelon to barbecues and cookouts and picnics, because it's a group food, because they're massive and so, and they're messy, but they're big. Two humans cannot, nor should they sit down and eat a watermelon. You know, they take up a lot of real estate in one's fridge.

Marco:  You mean in one sitting or counter? You mean in one sitting? Two people shouldn't sit down and eat a watermelon in one sitting?

Amanda:  In one sitting. And so then you have to keep, like you perfect example, you bought this watermelon, you cut your slice. I asked you, how's the watermelon? And you went, not so great. This is the story of our life every summer. And then you proceeded to leave it on the counter for a day. And I was like, hey, do you got any plans for that watermelon? Yeah, yeah. Day two. Finally, I wrap it up. I take a bunch of stuff off our shelf on the bottom shelf of the fridge, moving around. you know, I'm going to be honest, my Lacroix, or Lacroix, depending on who you are, drinks and other things I like in the bottom shelf. And now it's become, the town of watermelon in my fridge. Because it's like two huge dishes of watermelon on their side wrapped in, you know, And I don't use cellophane for barely anything. I rarely, rarely, rarely use cellophane or, the Brits call it cling wrap or film Wrap or whatever. You know what I'm talking about. Saran Wrap.

Marco:  Cling film.

Amanda:  Cling film, yeah. Anyway, the plastic stuff, I have it. I probably use a roll a decade, truthfully, but it's one of those things where that's probably your best bet. So I used it. And, sometimes I use beeswax wraps for it, but I don't like washing the watermelon off of them anyway. And then it sits there and then I make a salad. I go and I find the cheese and go, okay, we have mint. And that would be a good salad for lunch, on a day when we're both home, which doesn't happen a lot. So there you go. That's the story of me and watermelon every year till infinity.

Marco:  Fair enough. Well, listen, I just did read not to give, papaya seeds to pregnant women or children, so.

Amanda:  Pepper grinders.

Marco:  And I don't think you should put them in peppermints.

Amanda:  You told me this a long time ago. And I even saved the seeds, thinking, great, we can use them as peppercorns. And then I looked it up and did my research and we did not use them. I threw them out.

Marco:  Okay, well, you can use them for food.

Amanda:  Good luck.

Marco:  Okay. And I don't mind swallowing up.

Amanda:  I can't wait to eat your. Your papaya seed, lasagna or whatever.

Marco:  A watermelon seed now and then.

Amanda:  Nothing wrong with watermelon. Tree grows in your stomach. That's what they used to tell you when you're little.

Marco:  Okay, first of all, they don't grow on trees. Have you ever grown watermelon?

Amanda:  Yes, I know it's a vine. It's a squash.

Marco:  Yeah.

Amanda:  No, I haven't. Have you?

Marco:  I have, I have. But they've.

Amanda:  Were they good or did they also disappoint you?

Marco:  I think they disappointed me because here in the part of Canada we are, your growing season is only so long. So it only grew the size of a cannon. A large cannonball.

Amanda:  That's kind of what you want in a watermelon. These massive watermelons. I mean, that's an apartment sized watermelon. That's kind of what you want.

Marco:  How do you feel about muskmelons?

Amanda:  They're great, aren't they? They're very sweet.

Marco:  Yeah. They're like cant.

Amanda:  I love a cantaloupe. And let me tell you, cantaloupe is the unsung hero. I'm just going to go for it. Do you know what I'm going to say? I know what you're going to say, can I?

Marco:  Yeah, you can say it.

Amanda:  Let me tell you, this is for all the ladies. Cantaloupe is the unsung hero for UTI infections. I'm telling you, I. Everyone knows about cranberry. Yes.


My bag milk claims and my controversial UTI recos

You feel one coming on, you go for the pure cranberry juice. You'd say to me, cantaloupe, it's so sugary. Really? Yes. But the sugar in cantaloupe attaches to the bacteria, one of the bacterias that

Marco:  cause UTIs, which stands for urinary tract infection.

Amanda:  Yeah. For those who don't know. and they're a big and ongoing problem for many women. I would argue most m. Women at some point in their lives.

Marco:  Men can get them, too.

Amanda:  Men can get them too. You're absolutely right. And so, when we were in the Middle east, for reasons we don't have to go into, I was sort of constantly fighting one and cantaloupe, say, having tons of cantaloupe every morning kind of saved the day for me.

Marco:  So I just want to say at this point, we are not doctors, nor are we nutritionists, so please consult your nutritionist.

Amanda:  This is also coming from the people that tell you to grind papaya seeds in your pepper grinder and from the people that tell, you that Canada is the only bagged milk country there is. When meanwhile, the majority of the world is drinking their milk out of bags. Who knew? Things you learned.

Marco:  If it's the majority of the world, but there's certainly other places.

Amanda:  Well, it's not the majority of the world because the majority of the world isn't drinking milk, but majority of the dairy drinking world.

Marco:  I don't even know if that's true. I don't want to make these false claims. You seem like someone who likes to just step on the gas and make the false claim.

Amanda:  I'm sorry. This is why I can never run for politics. My bag milk claims and my controversial UTI recos.

Marco:  Well, there you go. yeah, so we. We have a lovely drive in front of us.

Amanda:  Yeah, we do.

Marco:  In the middle of the day, which is nice to do.

Amanda:  Confluence of a few reasons, but we both happen to have the day off that never happens. So we were like, oh, let's. Let's record this podcast. But, And you're still on the mend here?

Marco:  I'm still on the mend. I bought Manuka. Honey. I feel like today is just a food that's fine. And Amanda told me this. And listeners, I don't know if this is true. Or not. Because my British. My British sensibility. P.S. i'm not British. I just know that your soul. My soul is British. My British sensibility tells me that Amanda's wrong in this case. Oh. but I made coffee today for Amanda and I put some.

Amanda:  Thank you.

Marco:  I put some manuka honey in it because Manuka honey is this honey from Australia. That comes from the Manuka.

Amanda:  New Zealand.

Marco:  Probably New Zealand as well.

Amanda:  Okay.

Marco:  And the bees get the. Get the pollen from manuka flowers from the manuka tree, I believe. Don't quote me on that.

Amanda:  Yeah, I don't know anything about that.

Marco:  They only bloom for two to three, maybe five weeks. So there's a very short span. And then the honey is made from this. It supposedly has a lot of beneficial properties to it.

Amanda:  Yeah, it's one of those like, superfood honeys, which I don't always. Really expensive.

Marco:  I don't always believe. But I've had success with manuka honey.

Amanda:  I believe in the power of honey. And since I'm giving ah, unsolicited non medical advice today, I just want to do a shout out to my friend Propolis, which is not a wrapper from the 90s, but an amazing throat spray made of, Propolis.

Marco:  Made of propolis made from propolis with alcohol blended. So you can spray it.

Amanda:  Yeah. Which is what bees use make naturally to seal their hives. To keep their hives free of, fungal and infection and bacteria. And I spray it in my throat regularly. I love the taste of it. Not everyone does.

Marco:  It has an earthy taste. I think we mentioned this on the.

Amanda:  Earthy honey taste.

Marco:  Yeah, earthy taste. Earthy honey taste. I think we mentioned this on the show before and, if you feel a sore throat coming on, it's a good thing to spray.

Amanda:  Or if you're just around people that are coughing, which you know can happen. Right.

Marco:  And you've been spraying it or in

Amanda:  a crowded room or whatever. Yeah, I spray it.

Marco:  You've been using it lately. Because I've been sick. And so we usually have one in our car, one by the front mirror and one in the bedroom so that we can.

Amanda:  And one in every purse for me. Yeah.


Honey in any form remains soothing. When you put honey in hot beverages, you lose properties

Marco:  And there you go.

Amanda:  That and lip balm.

Marco:  But what I was saying about the honey before you took us to propolis town was that, I made Amanda B for three. Okay. So, Amanda, I made her a coffee this morning.

Amanda:  Thank you.

Marco:  And I put, That's the first thank you I got for the coffee.

Amanda:  it's actually the second I Said it earlier,

Marco:  made it with Manuka honey, and I brought it to Amanda. I'm like, I made this Manuka honey. I hope you enjoy it. And Amanda said, manuka honey. He doesn't. When you put it in, don't wake up people.

Amanda:  This is the part of the podcast where people are hopefully asleep.

Marco:  Okay?

Amanda:  So doing a very animated impression of me is not recommended by my doctorly advice.

Marco:  When you put honey in sounds just like me.

Amanda:  An exact likeness.

Marco:  When you put honey in copper. I'm trying to be calm, like you. Like, trying to do a conversion. When you put honey in hot water or hot beverage. When you put honey in hot beverages, you lose all the properties of a honey.

Amanda:  I said you shouldn't cook honey.

Marco:  I put it in a coffee. I didn't cook it.

Amanda:  Well, the coffee's hot, though. When you pour the coffee directly on it.

Marco:  I said to her, but wait a second, what are you talking about? Honey in tea has been a thing that people have done for years. It doesn't lose its beneficial properties.

Amanda:  It still remains soothing. Honey in any form remains soothing. However, part of the properties of Manuka honey and I could be very wrong here, but I believe are the unpasteurized form of it. Once you pasteurize anything, you're getting all the natural stuff out of it, which is a good thing in a lot of cases because it takes, you know, like in milk, for example. There's a reason we pasteurize milk, however, with honey, you want it in its raw form, do you not? Especially when you're having it for any type of help, with immunity or whatever. So any honey in any form, pasteurized or not, could be soothing. But all I'm saying is if you put scalding hot coffee on it, it could maybe reduce some of the properties. Perhaps. I'm not sure. Okay, bagged milk.

Marco:  Fair enough. Fair enough. Like I said before, don't take any medical or nutritional advice from us on this podcast.


Amanda doesn't seem to plan for any topics for the podcast

Amanda:  Propolis, musk melons, watermelons papaya seeds. What else have we covered?

Marco:  This is. This is what happens when I don't plan ahead. Our topic, because I just didn't have the mental capacity to do so today.

Amanda:  I like how you phrase that when we don't. When I don't plan ahead. Our topic. That's. Your mom would do that turn of phrase.

Marco:  And yet Amanda doesn't seem to plan for any topics for the podcast, but yet has no problems.

Amanda:  No, I like it. I like when you phrase things like that. Okay, Your mom does it. And I really like it? I don't know. You're looking at me. Not happily, but.

Marco:  Well, it didn't sound very nice, but I can listen back.

Amanda:  No, all I mean is. It's a turn of phrase. I think it comes from how you would say it. in Italian.

Marco:  No, not everything about my life comes from my Italian background. Sometimes I just like to speak the way I speak.

Amanda:  Not everything in your life comes from your Italian background because I'm in your life. But everything else beyond me, I think does.

Marco:  I don't know about that, folks.

Amanda:  I mean, you're.

Marco:  You're offending my British sensibilities.

Amanda:  That's fair.

Marco:  my friend Nima. Our friend Nima said that, he was talking with a woman who referred to her credit card as a plastic plate. Have you ever heard that?

Amanda:  Never.

Marco:  Yeah.

Amanda:  What?

Marco:  Put it on the plastic plate.

Amanda:  Plastic plate, yeah. Is she British?

Marco:  No, she was just old. Not everybody who speaks weirdly is British, Amanda.

Amanda:  Well, I just try to find out where things come from.

Marco:  We're gonna get a lot of letters from that.

Amanda:  I know, because I grew up saying rut, the rubbish barrel.

Marco:  Oh, did you?

Amanda:  Yeah. Did you not know that? Have you ever heard my parents say that?

Marco:  The rubbish barrel.

Amanda:  We wouldn't say the garbage.

Marco:  Why would you have a barrel for your rubbish?

Amanda:  The garbage bin.

Marco:  Rubbish bin.

Amanda:  We don't say that. But you said rubbish barrel. Listen, I don't know.

Marco:  Did you guys have an actual barrel that you would put trash in?

Amanda:  We had a barrel, but not for that. My mom liked barrels. She was going through, like, a barrel phase.

Marco:  What did she use the barrels for?

Amanda:  We had a wishing well in front of our house. Did you know that?

Marco:  I think you don't. Yeah, okay, but what. Don't try to get away from the barrel topic.


As an American, I grew up saying my pocketbook, which in Canada translates to purse

We need to know.

Amanda:  Remember, there were barrels in our garage.

Marco:  For what?

Amanda:  I don't know. My grandfather made them, I think.

Marco:  But what was inside the barrels?

Amanda:  I don't know. I didn't ask.

Marco:  Oh, my goodness. Okay. I'm glad this isn't a true crime barrel.

Amanda:  Does she not have to?

Marco:  Because we had wine. We would wine in them. Yeah, we. We used them for the purposes that they served.

Amanda:  Yeah, I don't think we ever did that.

Marco:  Okay. My goodness, the things you learn when you do a podcast with your spouse.

Amanda:  Rubbish barrel. Anyway, I'm just saying we had different turns of phrases. Pocketbook is a great one. As an American, I grew up saying my pocketbook, which in Canada would translate to purse.

Marco:  Right?

Amanda:  Yeah. But a lot of people don't realize that. That's what a pocketbook is. Oh, another one. I was talking to somebody about this recently. Cocoa. We would say have a cup of cocoa, but here you would say hot chocolate. A lot of people are like, oh, are you saying that cocoa is the same as hot chocolate? They thought it was a type of hot chocolate with cocoa or whatever, but m. They're the same. Fair. So there you go. You're welcome for decoding these hot topics like pocketbook versus purse.


Sometimes I'll say blower for the phone because we heard Martin Short

Marco:  I told Nima that sometimes I'll say blower for the phone because we heard Martin Short talk about his agent who used to say, I'll get on the blower and call them. And it made me laugh. And now.

Amanda:  Was it Martin Short?

Marco:  It was Martin Short, I think.

Amanda:  No, no, it was David Sedaris.

Marco:  Oh, it was David Sedaris.

Amanda:  David Sedaris talking about he had a writing agent that was old and he would say things like, let me just get on the blower. And every now and then we'll hear someone say that, get on the blower.

Marco:  I try to incorporate that into my speech when I talk about the phone. Get on the blower. Because I just think it sounds so funny.


Amanda learned that things go into public domain a hundred years after creation

Amanda:  Here's something I learned this week. Speaking of old things, or are we out of time?

Marco:  No, we're getting there.

Amanda:  But you have time. I didn't know. We learned this playing. We had a board game night with our very good friends and their kids were so wonderful. Kids who are not kids anymore. They're both in. They're both in grad school, so they're both like, definitely adults. anyway, they're awesome and they made some time to play board games with us. How sweet is that to kids in grad school? Anyway, I learned that I thought, things went into public domain a hundred years after the thing was created, but it isn't. It's a hundred years after that person passes. I didn't know that.

Marco:  I think it's 50 years.

Amanda:  No, it's a hundred.

Marco:  I thought it was 70 years in Canada, 50 years in the U.S. okay.

Amanda:  I don't know any of these things.

Marco:  Well, it's something you should look up. Not you, Amanda.

Amanda:  Should I?

Marco:  No. I'm sorry.

Amanda:  Do you want me to. Sure. Look it up right now.

Marco:  If you're looking for things that are in the public domain.


I'm reading Agatha Christie books in large print and I'm enjoying it

Oh, I want to share this with our listeners. I had, I had said to everyone that I was going to start reading Agatha Christie books.

Marco:  In the order they were published. Well, I'm on book four and I'M very, very happy.

Amanda:  Yeah.

Marco:  How's it going? Well, book four. I got all the books from the library and book four is large print. It's happened, folks, and, you know, I didn't realize, but it's large print and I'm really enjoying reading large print. It's like the novel's being kind of yelled at me a little bit, and I'm really enjoying it. I'm reading it with more, intensity, but also what I like about large print. And I don't need to read large print yet, but certainly in darker places, dimmer, Dimmer lit places, dimly lit places, it's much easier to read the large print. So I'm. I'm enjoying it.

Amanda:  I'm learning a lot about public domain.


Some works never fully lapse into public domain; there's a perpetual copyright

Marco:  Okay, here we go.

Amanda:  There's a thing called perpetual copyright.

Marco:  Oh, I like that. Yeah, I want this show to be.

Amanda:  Some works never fully lapse into public domain. In the United Kingdom, for example, there's perpetual crown copyright for the King James version of the Bible. Did you know that?

Marco:  No, I did not know that.

Amanda:  like J.M. barrie's work. So Peter Pan.

Marco:  Oh, that's in perpetual.

Amanda:  were granted special exception that require world needs to be paid for commercial performances. Interesting. Oh, as long as it goes to the A hospital. Okay. So Barry granted the copyright to this hospital.

Marco:  That's wonderful. That's really lovely.

Amanda:  But you're right, most countries, it's 70

Marco:  years after the person who has passed on. Okay.

Amanda:  I think so.

Marco:  Well, that's good to know.

Amanda:  Yeah.


For the Insomnia Project, our thirst trap, we need a wind machine

Well, there. I've learned something today, and I've given out a lot of wrong information. I think if you have, if you

Marco:  have any corrections, you'd like us to make based on this episode.

Amanda:  I'm only doing it. I'm. But this is my version of, you know, thirst. What are those called? Thirst photos. What are those called? Thirst trap.

Marco:  I don't even know what that is.

Amanda:  You don't know what a thirst trap is? No, a thirst trap. And you and I both know someone who does this. A thirst trap is like they. They post like, really like, scantily hot photos of themselves for likes.

Marco:  Oh, yeah.

Amanda:  It's called a thirst trap.

Marco:  Should we do that? For the Insomnia Project,

Amanda:  our thirst trap, we need a wind machine and some bikinis.

Marco:  Oh, my goodness.

Amanda:  I can't imagine.

Marco:  I'll put one on if you put one on.

Amanda:  Nope.

Marco:  Okay.

Amanda:  I mean, I have. I don't know. I might have one. I don't know. It's not going to be pretty do

Marco:  you have the beehive? bikini.

Amanda:  You need to explain why you call it a beehive.

Marco:  It's not made Acropolis because it's like the top is black and the bottom is yellow or something like that.

Amanda:  And how did I get that bikini?

Marco:  You were like, I want to be a bee on the beach. And you went and you searched. I can't remember. We were somewhere.

Amanda:  We were somewhere and they didn't. They had a pool and I didn't have a bathing suit, so I went across to Walmart and got that. I actually don't remember where it was.

Marco:  It was somewhere with Daniela Velascala. Because Daniela La called you queen bee.

Amanda:  That's right. I think Ottawa then.

Marco:  Okay, There you go.

Amanda:  Yeah, because that was last time we were with, them.

Marco:  So, yeah, Best place to buy your bikinis, Ottawa. And we'll leave you with that. Thank you for listening to our podcast. I know it was a bit silly today.

Amanda:  as opposed to the hard hitting.

Marco:  Once we usually.

Amanda:  Once we usually do.

Marco:  Until next time, we hope this podcast brought a smile to your face. At the very least, I don't know if it got you to sleep, but if it did, even all the more better. Till next time.

Amanda:  You're wondering why you dreaming of papaya seeds.

Marco:  I hope you were able to listen and sleep.

In Shreddies, Studs, and Stay Gold, Marco and Amanda ease into another softly meandering conversation that turns everyday mishaps and nostalgic memories into something unexpectedly calming. The episode begins with Amanda’s unfortunate toe-stubbing incident — told with just enough detail to be relatable, but not dramatic — before drifting into distinctly Canadian territory with reflections on bagged milk and its quiet cultural charm.
From there, cereal takes center stage, with Shreddies sparking a surprising connection to Campbell’s Soup and a gentle exploration of breakfast rituals past and present. The conversation then glides into the nostalgic world of The Outsiders, touching on behind-the-scenes tidbits and the enduring appeal of “stay gold” sentimentality. Rather than diving too deep, Marco and Amanda keep the tone light and companionable, letting memories surface without urgency.
As always, this calming podcast unfolds at an unhurried pace, offering a relaxing conversation designed to help you fall asleep, ease anxiety, or quiet racing thoughts. It’s perfect for background listening at bedtime or during a middle-of-the-night wake-up — just steady voices, gentle tangents, and a soft drift toward rest.

​Shreddies, Studs, and Stay Gold
(Original airdate: August 1, 2024)


Amanda Barker stubbed her toe on the way into the studio

Welcome to the Insomnia Project. Sit back, relax and listen as we have a calm conversation about the mundane. Thank you for listening. I'm your host, Marco Timpano.

Amanda:  And I'm the mundane.

Marco:  And that's Amanda Barker, who stubbed her toe a moment ago.

Amanda:  Yeah, it was a dramatic event in this booth.

Marco:  Yes.

Amanda:  So when I have an incident like stubbing one's toe, my first line of defense is I don't want to faint. So it's always very confusing for Marco because I'M crazy all of a sudden. But I also don't want to take the. I don't want to respond to him. So I usually try to eke out and I'm okay of some level, so he can know, okay, this isn't, you know, whatever, and that'll be manageable. But I'm also trying to focus on my breath so that I don't faint, because that is a bigger problem. So I didn't faint, but now I have a really busted toe.

Marco:  She busted it, or she stubbed it on the way into the studio to record. And so recording later than we would have liked.

Amanda:  It was a little baby one. So it's already fat, and now it's very fat.

Marco:  Okay, well, hopefully it's not busted. Hopefully it's just a little bit bruised. And, And there you go.

Amanda:  Some people have a baby toe that, like, sits on top of their other toes.

Marco:  It's true. It's true.

Amanda:  That's a neat thing. I don't have that.

Marco:  But I recommend wearing slippers around the house and not be barefoot.

Amanda:  And by slippers, you mean like old lady slipp?

Marco:  I mean. No, I mean.

Amanda:  You mean you call your Birkenstocks slippers?

Marco:  Yeah, I mean Birkenstocks. I mean any sort of slipper type thing.

Amanda:  Well, I have slippers, and I was shooting yesterday and they wanted me to bring slippers, so I brought all my slippers to show them, and they went, none of these are usable. And then there was no. My feet were nowhere near the shot anyway, so that's where they are. They're in a suitcase for nobody to use.

Marco:  And what kind of slippers do you like to use?

Amanda:  Well, I would have. I was trying to find flip flops to wear down here, but I couldn't find any, so I came down barefoot. And we know how that ended. But, I just like a nice, comfy slipper. I don't know. I don't. I like, something with a lot of inside comfort, like, you know, a fake lambswool or something, or wool, whatever.

Marco:  What about, like, a Birkenstock? Like what I wear.

Amanda:  See, that to me is a sandal. It's not a slipper. For starters, I love a Birkenstock. the problem with backless shoes is sometimes they hurt the backs of my ankles because my foot's constantly gripping to hold them on. But a. Ah, good flip flop. Yeah, that's a thing. And you get shin splints from them often. A lot of people do.

Marco:  why is your back of your foot gripping My foot.

Amanda:  Well, I'll try to demo with my busted toe, but my foot's constantly gripping to hold the shoe on because nothing's. Because otherwise it'll fall off.

Marco:  But it wouldn't fall off if you have like a double strap like the one I have here.

Amanda:  When I had Birkenstocks like that, that was the biggest problem, so I had to stop wearing them. I see. Yeah. But I like wearing them around the house because they're good support. I love. Listen, I love Birkenstocks, but I have a pair of Birkenstock boots that I wear all winter long. They look. They're huge because Birkenstocks just have that wide sole. So imagine that in a leather boot. I look like I'm going to. I'm stepping off of a motorcycle and Blade Runner or something. But. But I do. But, no, I have a pair of flip flops called Archies. Yes, they offer really great support.

Marco:  Trevor was telling me all about Archies.

Amanda:  Trevor and I like to buy things that are pitched to us online.

Marco:  But Archies, do you have to grasp with your heel?

Amanda:  No, I mean, I've gotten better over the years with that. With wearing backless shoes. But that's the problem with backless shoes. And me, like, I can't wear them every day.

Marco:  These are slippers or sandals as you call them. They're not shoes.

Amanda:  Yeah, they're sandals. Yeah. Okay, well, flip flops aren't. I mean, they're their own category too.

Marco:  I don't like a flip flop. You have the flip flop that goes like. Like a thong flip flop. Is that what we're talking?

Amanda:  Yeah, thongs.


Can you wear thongs on your feet and underwear at the same time

Marco:  That's what Aussies call them, right?

Amanda:  I think we, Yeah, I've heard them called thongs before. But then obviously thongs are also underwear, so I don't know. AKA the Thong song.

Marco:  Can you wear both thongs on your feet?

Amanda:  What happened to Cisco?

Marco:  Can you wear both? He sang the Thong Song, in case you're wondering. And he's not the one who delivers food to different restaurants and whatnot.

Amanda:  Cisco with a C. Or Cisco as it might be called.

Marco:  Are you able to wear thongs on your feet and thongs on your underwear at the same time?

Amanda:  Thongs on my underwear?

Marco:  Well, thongs as underwear.

Amanda:  Me or the theoretical you? Because I think both are true.

Marco:  The royal we. Do you think we could do it?

Amanda:  I don't like feeling like I have a wedgie every day of my life, so it would not be me, but the royal we could do it. I'M sure someone in royalty has done such a thing.

Marco:  Fair enough. It's just a funny, funny thought. There's no other thong other than those two instances of thong. Right.

Amanda:  There's tongs, salad tongs. You could use them while you're wearing your thong. And your other thong.

Marco:  Do you use salad tongs? We have a few of them, and they drive me. They always drive me a little bit crazy because they expand. These ones we have now are pretty good. They kind of hold their place when you're not using them.

Amanda:  What do you mean? They expand?

Marco:  You know how if you.

Amanda:  Oh, you mean like. Yeah. Is that what they're called? Tongs? The thing with the thing on top that holds the two pieces together. You mean?

Marco:  Yeah, it's a little thing that allows you to pick up stuff.

Amanda:  That's a.

Marco:  That's a. That's a tong.

Amanda:  I guess it is. I was thinking salad. Like we have a salad fork, big fork and spoon combo made out of wood. That's what I use.

Marco:  I don't like the bear claw thingy that we have. They're kind of like. They look like combs. They're, like, short. Is that what you're talking about?

Amanda:  Wait, we have short ones? Yeah. No, there's like a bit like a big wooden thing. What are you talking about?

Marco:  Don't we have little.

Amanda:  What are you making, salad?

Marco:  No, it's true. But you know the two wooden ones that we have that don't have handles?

Amanda:  Yeah, that's what I prefer to use. So that's the one you don't like?

Marco:  Yeah, I don't like them. They don't have handles. It seems weird to me. It feels like you're.

Amanda:  They don't have handles.

Marco:  They don't have long handles.

Amanda:  They have handles, though. Those. I mean, there's some don't, but those ones do.

Marco:  I don't like them.

Amanda:  My toe hurts.

Marco:  I'm sorry.

Amanda:  Now I'm trying to use the tile to cool it because I can't move away from the mic to ice it. So I'm just trying to find a cool tile moment to put it on. It's all swollen.


Canada is the only country in the world that has bags of milk

Marco:  Amanda had a bag of frozen milk on her foot a moment ago.

Amanda:  So that's a very Canadian thing, Frozen milk. We should probably explain that frozen milk

Marco:  is a Canadian thing. Bags of milk, both.

Amanda:  Because you can't really freeze a carton of milk, can you?

Marco:  Sure you can. If you have room in your freezer, you can freeze a carton, I suppose,

Amanda:  but I've never tried. But yeah. No, Canada is Canada, the only country in the world that has bags of milk?

Marco:  I believe so.

Amanda:  Yeah. I don't know how that happened or how that started, but in Canada. Very practical people, for those who are not here. Well, yeah, I suppose. But they're plastic. But they sell. You buy your milk. I mean, you can buy it in a carton, you know, like a civilian or if you're the rest of the population. The majority of the population. I think what you do is you buy a bag, and in that bag are three individual bags.

Marco:  Correct.

Amanda:  Of milk. All like a liter, I would say. Of milk. Each one.

Marco:  Sure. Yeah.

Amanda:  I don't know.

Marco:  Anyway, I'm gonna go with that. I guess it's either 750 or a liter.

Amanda:  Sure. it's four.

Marco:  No, wait. It's four liters for three bags, I believe is what it is.

Amanda:  Okay. Well, there you go.

Marco:  I'd have to look at the big.

Amanda:  A liter 25. I think that is what it is. Actually, it's 1.25. Anyway, but you should explain what

Marco:  the bag is like, because.

Amanda:  Yeah, I'm trying. so then you get this bag. It's a clear bag or it's blue. One company makes them in, like, a blue plastic. The rest are clear. And you put it in a separate plastic container that you just use and wash. That looks just like a little pitcher. And you put the bag in the little pitcher, but you keep everything in the bag. And then you just cut a little hole in the corner of the bag and pour it out that way the

Marco:  bag looks like a rectangle. Like a. Like a. I'm trying to think of something that looks like that bag. So people. Because people think bag, they think like a little sandbag.

Amanda:  Like a baby sandbag filled with milk.

Marco:  Yeah, I guess a sandbag. I'm trying to think of other things. Like, they're rectangular and kind of long.

Amanda:  Well, it's a rectangle. Yeah, for sure.

Marco:  Okay.

Amanda:  Yeah, it's a rectangle of milk. Good old rectangle. Anyway, and you buy them. And now, here's the thing. A lot of adults are like, oh, I don't drink a lot of milk. I put cream on my coffee or whatever. Well, Marco and I do drink milk for cappuccinos, but it is mostly just for coffee. We're not big into cereal or anything, but we like having milk in the house.

Marco:  I don't mind cereal, but we don't often buy it in this house.

Amanda:  No, it's true. I don't know. I fell out of the cereal train once I hit my Adult years, and I kind of never looked back. But, in any event, we drink it enough that we about half the time have it in the house, I would say.

Marco:  Full disclosure, we have two boxes of Shreddies that were on sale. Honey Shreddies, My favorite.

Amanda:  Also very Canadian. So explain Shreddies.

Marco:  Shreddies are a cereal that look like a little square that have almost a pattern, on them. Like a crisscross pattern.

Amanda:  Yeah, they're almost like, Chex, but better, like American Czechs, but dense. But they're not as puffed as American Chex.

Marco:  They're dense and tasty.

Amanda:  So that's a thing.


Your sister and you love Canadian things, I would say

So anyway, you know who likes Shreddies? Your sister. Yes, it's true, apparently. And you. Yes, you like them. your sister and you are very interesting because you guys really do love really purely Canadian things, I would say.

Marco:  We do.

Amanda:  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. You both have, like, a real love of, like, really Canadian things. Because I think you kids that grew up in Canada, yeah, we're Canadian.

Marco:  I know, but I don't understand.

Amanda:  What makes Shreddies is one for sure. Tasty bagged milk.

Marco:  Bagged milk. That's the best way to have milk in a bag.

Amanda:  So anyway, you can recycle these bags for those who are like, wow, this is a lot of plastic. Which it is. But, the glory of it is for people like us who are not gonna go through what we used to buy in the states when I was a kid. Those big jugs of milk, the gallon of milk or whatever. You can just have one bag on the go, but you have those other two bags, and you can throw them in the freezer, and then you just defrost them, and it defrosts perfectly fine. You can even throw it in the little pouring jug, and it'll slowly defrost there. So that's kind of the glory. Well, this week, I hit the frozen milk jackpot.

Marco:  It's true.

Amanda:  Because, I don't even shop at the grocery store that's near us because we just. Our food needs are not really organized in a way where I go to the grocery store is the truth. We do box meals, and then we do a big box Costco, store.

Marco:  But we used to have two grocery stores very close to us. Now we have or three with the other one that opened down the street. Actually, four, to be honest.

Amanda:  Four. We actually had four. We're in a grocery store zone.

Marco:  Zone. And one is now turning into condos. So it's gone. My Sobeys Yeah.

Amanda:  Another one. Another condo. Put a grocery store in a very. Like, our version of a Whole Foods, I would say.

Marco:  Yeah. And I don't love it. I don't love getting to it. I don't love it.

Amanda:  It's niche. It has some. It's try. It's Canada's answer to Trader Joe's. So, it's not Trader Joe's. it does its best. That's the best I can say.

Marco:  And so, anyways, the one closest to

Amanda:  our house is, just the biggest one of Canada. And so I don't go there a lot. and so I don't need to. We go to Costco. We have box meals. We're only two people in this house. You know, I don't need to shop. Like, we're a family of six. We're not. So I've learned, you know, I love to grocery shop, but I've learned that it's. It's not. Especially in the summer. We've been away a ton.

Marco:  We go to food stands. We have beautiful peaches right now.

Amanda:  Yeah, yeah, we got corn and peaches from a food stand. I made a gorgeous corn chowder out of local corn and potatoes. So you know it. We don't need to do that as much.

Marco:  Amanda subscribed to some service where you can go pick fruit off people's trees.

Amanda:  I know, and we have to do that because I've gotten a lot of updates of, like, fruit picks available.

Marco:  What fruit picks are available?

Amanda:  I don't know where we are. We're at. I think we're almost out of cherry season. I don't even know. All right, so, yeah, we got to do that, but we haven't been around. So I haven't committed to a fruit pick because we haven't been around.

Marco:  We had to go, out of country for work. That's why you didn't have an episode last week.

Amanda:  So, anyways, very unexpectedly, to be honest.


The bagged milk for $2 at this grocery store is unheard of

So all this to say the more important thing. Of course, the country. Going out of country is interesting, but for us, what is most interesting for this podcast is our bags of milk. Bags of milk. So I hit the bagged milk jackpot. I saw on one of the groups I'm on. Hey, everyone, they got the. The bagged milk for $2 at this grocery store. Now, that's unheard of because usually you buy these three bags and it'll run you around six bucks. Yeah, between five and six on a normal day.

Marco:  I don't remember when they sold them for two bucks. I always remember Them around three bucks.

Amanda:  Yeah. And now they're definitely five dollars would be sale. Yeah, it's between five and six, generally speaking. And so. And of course, the reason being because the milk was, set to expire, I think, next week.

Marco:  I see, I see. So they had a surplus of milk. They had a run on milk that they had to get rid of, in other words.

Amanda:  Yes. So I bought four of these bags, which, remember, contain three bags each of milk. So our freezer is just milk, Milk, bags of milk. So we do have peas from my poor wounded toe, but they are way behind some frozen milk that I haven't managed to get to yet. So you and I are drinking a lot of cappuccinos, I guess.

Marco:  I guess that milk will last us. The interesting thing is when you unfreeze a bag of milk, it doesn't froth the same way as prior to frozen.

Amanda:  That's true.

Marco:  Unless someone has a tip on how to froth reconstituted thawed milk.

Amanda:  But other than that, it's perfectly the same milk. It's not like there's nothing odd about it. Weird or chunky or anything about it. but, sometimes I can get it to froth.

Marco:  I was gonna try to make ricotta with the milk, and I, just didn't have time or the desire. I've been busy.

Amanda:  Yeah. Ah, well, you use a whole. How much to get, like, a good

Marco:  cup of ricotta, you need those three bags. Or ricotta, you need three bags. For sure. There's a lot of.

Amanda:  It's not economical.

Marco:  No, it's not. Like, I thought at one point, I'll make my own ricotta. We don't have to buy it, but it actually costs more to make it than.

Amanda:  Although making your own and when you eat it warm is like nothing else. Yeah, but. Yeah, we know. I don't think our ricotta needs are as such that we need to be funding them.

Marco:  I'm still curious on what me and my sister do. That's very Canadian that you said.

Amanda:  You say converter for the.

Marco:  That's what it's called.

Amanda:  you reference Canadian things. I think you say chesterfield for the sofa.

Marco:  That's actually a British thing. Thank you very much.

Amanda:  But it's also a Canadian thing. Can you do it?

Marco:  I would like to get a Chesterfield.

Amanda:  You guys like actual Chesterfield? Okay, well, we will.

Marco:  Okay.

Amanda:  you both like craft dinner and call it craft dinner?

Marco:  Who doesn't?

Amanda:  what else do you guys do that's Canadian? I don't know. She likes drip coffee.

Marco:  Okay, fair enough.

Amanda:  I think she likes Tim Hortons Now,

Marco:  Amanda, anytime me and my sister do something together that's very Canadian, she'll point

Amanda:  it out to us. But to me, Shreddies is a very Canadian, like. Oh, I love Shreddies. Is a very Canadian thing.

Marco:  Because they're boring. It's a boring cereal. Right? It's not like a Sugar Puffs or a Fruit Loops or anything.

Amanda:  Cinnamon Toast Crunch, I'll have you know.

Marco:  But at that point, it's no longer cereal.

Amanda:  Well, this is why Amanda needs to get her sugar levels checked as an adult, because that's. She lived on as a child. What can I say?

Marco:  Oh, fair enough.

Amanda:  yeah, listen, I was. I was raised in the, heart of America.

Marco:  It's true.

Amanda:  Not the heartland, the. The revolutionary heart, man.

Marco:  If. If you haven't.


You identify as a Torontonian, right? I think so

Amanda:  This is your first podcast, folks. I'm from, just south of Boston. That's really just south. Like we call it Boston, but south Shore. The South Shore. That's where I'm from.

Marco:  That's right.

Amanda:  with my busted toe and I'm from Wicked Hurts. Oh, man. I'm from Swelling Up.

Marco:  just north of Toronto is where I was born.

Amanda:  That's true.

Marco:  And then I live just north of Toronto, but now I live in Toronto.

Amanda:  So you identify as a Torontonian?

Marco:  I think so. I think so.

Amanda:  I think you're as much as anyone is a Torontonian. I mean, you've lived in Toronto proper, not the suburbs, for 20 plus years now.

Marco:  Right, right. But I grew up always, like, in the suburbs. Mississauga Vaughan, you know, that was sort of my world. but it's changed. It's changed quite a bit. I was talking to someone about that. It's like you go back to where you were raised and it looks totally different.

Amanda:  Yeah, it's true. Well, nothing gold can stay. Ponyboy, I guess.


Marco Cranieri says the original Karate Kid holds up remarkably well

Marco:  Speaking of that, that's on Broadway right now.

Amanda:  And I saw the original movie the other day, and for me, it holds up.

Marco:  Oh, you watched the Outsiders?

Amanda:  Yeah, when I was sick a couple weeks ago. like a month ago now. I just had this urge to watch the Outsiders. I hadn't seen it since I was 7 years old, but I had sort of memories of it. It's interesting. Like, Tom Cruise is a very small role in it. Like, you think of the cast, and they all went on to have incredible careers, really. except for maybe, C. Thomas Howell, the lead. Yeah. See, Thomas Howell, I mean, he did in the 80s.

Marco:  He was. He had a lot of movies. He was doing.

Amanda:  I bet you, he, if you looked it up, he's like a big director or something. but the rest of them, I mean, Patrick Swayze, Tom. Patrick Swayze, by the way, is great in it. Tom Cruise, obviously Ralph Macchio, who's had a nice resurgence with, the Karate Kid series, Cobra Kai, which I love, by the way. We have to. We're behind on that. We're a couple seasons behind on that. We did, I think, up to season two or three. It got a little. I couldn't follow which dojo was which, who were the good guys or whatever, so I kind of stopped watching. But we should get back into that because it had a very promising beginning. And I have to say, that original Karate Kid movie, since we're on that also holds up. And I have a theory on why.

Marco:  Why?

Amanda:  Okay, here's my theory on the Karate Kid that everyone has been dying to hear. my theory is improv.

Marco:  Oh.

Amanda:  My theory is improv.

Marco:  Oh.

Amanda:  So when you watch the Karate Kid movie, there are parts of it. Obviously it's scripted. It's a scripted movie, but there are a lot of parts of it that feel really real and organic and like they just happened for the first time, which is what any good scene or acting should feel like. But that's hard to do when you've been rehearsing and, you know, and a lot of movies in the 80s do not feel that way or didn't feel that way. So this one is, I think, unique and it's why it holds up. And my theory as to why is because Ralph Macchio did the Outsiders. The Outsiders, we remember, was Francis Ford Coppola.

Marco:  That's right.

Amanda:  Which is an interesting. Was an interesting choice. Which, by the way, tangent on that. Apparently Francis Ford Coppola made that movie because a classroom wrote to him and said, we love this book. Would you please make it into a movie? No, this is a true story. Yeah, like a. Like a third grade class or something wrote to him.

Marco:  I think that book's a little bit intense for a grade three class, but

Amanda:  okay, see, grade three Canadian. Okay. Anyway, Okay, maybe they're in middle school.

Marco:  We love this. This very violent book where kid, I

Amanda:  was seven, I was grade two when I saw it. But anyway. Okay, whatever.

Marco:  Fair enough.

Amanda:  I don't know.

Marco:  But anyway, the lore is that.

Amanda:  No, it's not a lore. If you look it up, the Internet is real. you can find the original letter and all of that.

Marco:  Oh, really?

Amanda:  Yeah, they wrote to him and said, we think this should be your next movie after The Godfather. And he read it and went, guess what? We're going to do it. We optioned it. Good, idea.

Marco:  How does a grade three class find his address to write him a letter?

Amanda:  Because the 80s.

Marco:  Okay.

Amanda:  I don't know, Marco. When I was in grade three, our teacher had us write to companies asking for free samples. It's actually brilliant as, a way for us to practice our letter writing skills.

Marco:  And did you get free samples?

Amanda:  I did. You know the company that really. I did from a few companies, but there was one and I, like, hit the jackpot.

Marco:  I'm gonna say Ocean Spray. Cranberries.

Amanda:  No. Such a good guess.

Marco:  McClaws lobster rolls.

Amanda:  That hadn't come out yet. Okay. Campbell soup. Oh, Campbell soup sent me a box of, clam chowder. No, actually, I don't think any of it was soup. I think it was like, it was all like the Campbell's kids. So it was like coloring books for classes. Coloring books, stickers. They had all of this paraphernalia. And the main thing for us as kids were in that age wasn't necessarily like, are we gonna get, you know, we just wanted to see what we could get out of these companies.


Amanda Barker says grade three teacher encouraged improv in school

Which is funny because I ended up being on the other side of those letters, years later for a big pizza company here. And that was my job for a long time, was answering those letters. But, that's what we did. But it was really brilliant, actually, because it was for us to practice our formal letter writing skills to, like, where the address goes. To whom it may concern.

Marco:  I love it.

Amanda:  Best regards, Amanda Barker, grade three student, Mrs. Hough's class.

Marco:  And were you the only one who got, a mother load of return?

Amanda:  A couple kids did. But I remember being so proud because no one else had done Campbell's soup. I see a lot of kids hit up like Johnson and Johnson. Of course, I, don't remember. We weren't allowed to do, like, medicine brands, so I can't really remember, which that probably is.

Marco:  So nobody wrote to Ozempic or anything like that is what you're saying I did not exist?

Amanda:  It did not exist. But, yeah, I think there was a lot of, like Procter and Gamble. Like, there was a lot of that. Because we'd be like, oh, who makes this toothpaste? And it would be some. And we learned, oh, a lot of companies make a lot of things and they come back to the same company.

Marco:  Isn't that your teacher was pretty brilliant?

Amanda:  Listen, I stand by the education I got in Massachusetts. I got a good education. I don't. It wasn't easy. like, they would give you a date. They wouldn't think twice about it. But we. We learn, man. anyway, I don't know how I got on Campbell's suit, but, The Outsiders, of course. yeah, they wrote to. They wrote to him, and so he made it. But m. Anyways, my m. Oh, Karate Kid. It all comes back to Karate Kid.

Marco:  I never liked the Outsiders. The book or the movie?

Amanda:  What? Yeah, I read, the one after it. I can't remember what it was.

Marco:  The Insiders. No, there's a book after the Outsiders.

Amanda:  Yeah. It's like, Then Again or if Only Then or something.

Marco:  Sounds like the Sex and the City remake.

Amanda:  No, it was. It was arguably better than that. Not arguably. It was better than that. and what's funny is Essie Hinton, who's in. She's in the Outsider. She has a cameo as one of the nurses that's treating Ralph Macchio. Yeah.

Marco:  Good for them. Yeah.

Amanda:  Yeah. And they're, like, really. The. The actors are, like, really rude to her, and the. Matt Dillon is, like, really rude to her in the scene. But she's the. She's the author of the book. She wasn't old. She wrote it as a teen. Wow. So she's only in her, like, 20s in that movie. It's pretty incredible. Anyway, she wrote it in her teens. Yeah. And she used Essie Hinton because she thought nobody will take a girl seriously. So she. She used that. Her name's, like, Susan Hinton. Yeah. So. And she plays one of the nurses. Like, she has, like, one line, but they purposely. Coppola did a cameo. Pretty brilliant, really. Anyway, so he. On the Outsiders, Francis Ford Coppola, that is encouraged. He really had them. You know, it was coming off the 70s, off of Pacino and obviously the work in the Godfather and De Niro and that school of acting in the 70s. It was very method. So he had the. The boys all living together and had them improvising, together, and, really just fostered this culture of improv with all of them. And the next movie Ralph Macchio did was the Karate Kid. So he was coming from Francis Ford Coppola, the spirit of improv, and just. He had. Which most kids would not have. And I know this to be true because I work with kids in acting every day, wouldn't have the courage to just go off page and just become the character and improvise a scene and think that that's okay and that's a thing they can just go for on set. But Ralph Macchio did, because he had just been coming from a set where that was the norm.

Marco:  Right.

Amanda:  And then you pair him with Pat Morita, who had been a lifelong stand up comedian, long history of, you know, stand up. But in Stand up, there's a lot of improv, obviously, if you're good, if you're good at it.


We hope you enjoyed this episode. Please tune in and don't forget to review

And so the two of them just met comedic beats together, even though it's not a comedic movie.

Marco:  Right.

Amanda:  They found the timing and the improv organically together. And that's why it holds up. The Karate Kid. There you go.

Marco:  And there you go. I feel like we did a tour of the 80s today. as well as a cup of Campbell soup. We hope you enjoyed this episode. Please tune in and don't forget to rate, review and subscribe or just give us a really positive review would be really helpful. And we hope you did not stay awake till this part of the podcast, but if you did, thank you for staying awake with us and we will see you or you will hear us next time.

In Take Me to the Theatre, Marco and Amanda settle into a softly spoken exploration of live performance, shining a gentle spotlight on the world of musicals — the dazzling, the dramatic, and the occasionally groan-worthy. They share recommendations for shows that linger long after the curtain falls, along with a few that didn’t quite strike the right chord. Fresh from the theatre, they offer their reflections on Water for Elephants, weaving in personal impressions rather than high-stakes critique.
The conversation drifts toward dream productions they’d love to see next, touching on the quiet ritual of attending a show — finding your seat, reading the program, waiting for the lights to dim. As always, this calming podcast unfolds at an unhurried pace, offering a relaxing conversation designed to help you fall asleep, ease anxiety, or quiet racing thoughts. It’s ideal for background listening at bedtime or during a middle-of-the-night wake-up. Let the soft hum of theatre memories and easy banter guide you gently toward rest.

​Take me to the theatre
(Originally aired: June 12,2024)


Amanda Barker is the co host of Insomnia Project with Marco Timpano

Welcome to the Insomnia Project. You're listening to this podcast. I hope you've been listening for a while and if you haven't, well, welcome to the fold. I'm the host, Marco Timpano.

Amanda: I'm Amanda Barker. I need you all to know that when Marco gets on the mic, his face is very animated in a way, like a little child you know about to discover a gift.

Marco: Well, yes, this is a gift. And that's our co host, Amanda Barker. And of course.

Amanda: I thought I said that, didn't I?

Marco: No, you just said it. I'm Amanda Barker.

Amanda: Well, what else am I if not co host?

Marco: Well, I said I was a host, and you didn't say you were a co host, so I didn't want people to be confused.

Amanda: Or your show, let's be honest. Is it. Or.

Marco: I think it's both our shows.

Amanda: I feel like. Cause you do the bulk of the work. I don't mean. I just mean I feel like I'm a third and you're two thirds.

Marco: Amanda shows up and records, and that's what she does.

Amanda: I'm not a giving partner in the podcasting world, but I'm giving in other ways.

Marco: It's true. She woke up this morning in tears, and I said, what's going on? And she's like, I'm reading a book. Which one of our listeners thanked us for, because you mentioned it.

Amanda: I'm surprised she thanked us, because I have 30 pages left, and it's destroying me.


We should mention the book again. Remind people what you're reading. The 100 Years of Lenny and Margo

Marco: We should mention the book again. Remind people what you're reading.

Amanda: I have to remember the name of it. The 100 Years of Lenny and Margo. I believe I've got that name right.

Marco: And the end seems to be bringing tears to you.

Amanda: Well, it brought tears in a moment that I didn't expect the tears.

Marco: Okay.

Amanda: And now I'm like, I needed to put the book down. I've got 30 more pages, and I don't know how this is going to end, but I've already cried my face off.

Marco: I see.


Do you enjoy being emotional when you go to see plays or read books

And do you enjoy, being emotional, like, when you go see plays or when you read books? Like, do you enjoy that or do you not enjoy that?

Amanda: That's a good question. I mean, yes and no. I love burying myself in a play, you know, or a book. there is that escape in a book, a really good book. You just escape the world. And that's such a magical. It's the transformative power of art. Right. And I feel that way about theater, too. You were saying plays, you know, when the lights go down. I love it when I go to see a show, a, play, a musical, whatever, and I don't know anything about it. So then I am just along for the journey. However they want to present it, however it affects me in that moment, I think it. And a movie, too, to be honest. I think it does A disservice when you've read too much. trailers tend to give away the whole movie these days. Or maybe they always.

Marco: So you're not bringing your own bias to the. To the endeavor.

Amanda: Everyone says this play is so good. Well, let me be the judge of that is sometimes, in fact, you're the

Marco: type of person who will go in there with a negative thought when everybody

Amanda: tells you, I mean, I hope not, but you're probably right. Or, you know, just that idea of. It's one of the reasons I love, the Fringe Festival. Now, I know we have a lot of listeners in the uk, so they will say fringe theater kind of meaning anything that's not West End, you know, independent theater.

Marco: I disagree with that because the Edinburgh Fringe Festival is a big.

Amanda: I just know that Victor, who lives in London, will say, people will say, I did a fringe show. And they don't mean it to mean in a festival necessarily. I mean, I think the. The Fringe Festival got its name because it was a bunch of independent theater companies putting together shows.

Marco: And I thought it was. That got their name because a lot of the people who came to see the shows were wearing fringy type things.

Amanda: Really?

Marco: Yes.

Amanda: No. so whatever Fringe means to you. But the Fringe Festival in Toronto, one of the things I used to do that I loved was I was on the. Speaking of being critical on a jury for a sort of sub festival called the Best of The Fringe, where 10 plays or shows anyways, would get chosen and get a reboot, at benefit to the company kind of thing in, a week or two after the festival itself. And it was a lovely way to experience a ton of shows and to just for three, four days, immerse myself in theater.

Marco: Because you were expected to see shows that you wouldn't necessarily see so that they could get a viewpoint, from all the people who were there to agree which shows should be highlighted.

Amanda: And what you would do is they had a team of us out there, and you would text the main person and you'd say, yes, no, or second look. And so they would send a few people out to each show, because if they were all no's, then they would be like, okay, we're gonna bypass that one. If they got yeses or second looks, then. And second look means, you know, opera's not my thing. This was an opera show. I think for some people it could have meaning. It didn't work for me, but. But it was good in terms of production quality or whatever.


There's an Opera coming to Toronto that I really want to see

Marco: Speaking of opera, there's an Opera coming to Toronto that I really want to see. And it's coming in the fall, so I'm gonna buy tickets for it.

Amanda: What's it called?

Marco: We've never gone to see an opera, you and I. And I do enjoy opera. Do you enjoy opera?

Amanda: I've only been once, and I have to be honest, I didn't. My friend Victor, who I was just talking about, he must be in, my brain today. I saw it because that's how he got his equity card. They needed, like, 10 men to move set pieces around and be part of the show. And, so he got his union card that way. And so it was an opera, so we went to see him in.

Marco: The question isn't, who did you see in an opera?

Amanda: Well, Silanta. My win. And I didn't love the opera, but it was fun seeing him.

Marco: Oh, maybe I take someone else. Maybe I take Trevor instead.

Amanda: Oh, okay.

Marco: Well, you said you don't like opera. I want to go with someone else.

Amanda: I've gone once, and I didn't enjoy it, to answer your question.

Marco: Well, Victor. Victor won't be in this production, so maybe you'll enjoy it more. It's Nabucco by Giuseppe Verde.

Amanda: Okay.

Marco: A Verdi, I should say. And it's, There is a piece in it that I'm really excited to see.

Amanda: Okay.

Marco: so, I want to see that. And it doesn't often get performed because it's a really large cast or it's supposed to be a really large cast.

Amanda: Don't overhype it, because I would like to go. I feel like I've already gotten bumped for Trevor.

Marco: Maybe I'll bump. All right, we'll see. We'll see. We'll see. If you.

Amanda: Opera probation.

Marco: You're a little bit on opera. No, I'll see it with you. But you go in with an open mind.

Amanda: Well, that's what I'm saying. Don't hype it for me.

Marco: Well, I'm hyping it for me because I'm excited about it.

Amanda: Okay, but then that's the problem. Then you go and you're like. It was okay.

Marco: No, the problem is you'll be whispering to my ear what you don't like about it when I'm trying to enjoy.

Amanda: That's not true. Is it true?

Marco: It's true.

Amanda: We went and saw a Broadway show recently. Did I do that?

Marco: A little bit. Not too much.

Amanda: Okay, well, there you go.

Marco: We saw Elephant for water, Elephants for water. Water for Elephants.

Amanda: Memorable, huh? Huh?

Marco: This is where. Where our friend Bill Based on a

Amanda: pretty famous book, Eleanor and movie.

Marco: Bill gets upset. He's probably read both the book and the,

Amanda: He's probably seen the Broadway show. Yeah.

Marco: Ah, it was okay. I mean, here's the thing. The circus is never my thing. Right. But I thought we'd be excited because there'd be acrobatics.

Marco: Which there was.

Amanda: Which there was. But the problem is if you go seeing Cirque du Soleil a lot, I mean, it's not going to be that it's a Broadway show. And so they have like, you know, seven circus performers. They were good.

Marco: They were good.

Amanda: And you also have to sing and stuff.

Marco: You know, for me, a musical. And let me just say this as a side note.


Amanda Bird went to see Cats and was underwhelmed

Cause I think we're gonna go into musical territory now. I'm not the best person to talk musicals about because I don't love musicals, but I do like opera. So for me it has to have a memorable number.

Amanda: Okay.

Marco: And this particular show for me did not have a memorable number.

Amanda: It's nominated for seven Tonys. So people do like it. They had a lot of aspects that I really enjoyed. Overall, I was a little underwhelmed. But again, the problem is, you go in going, it's a Broadway show, you better blow my socks off.

Marco: Sure.

Amanda: And I don't know that my socks were blown. You know what I mean?

Marco: Are there shows you've seen Broadway or not? Makes it seem like we go to Broadway all the time.

Amanda: I know.

Marco: That have blown your socks off.

Amanda: I have seen really beautiful and wonderful performances and plays on Broadway. And those are actually the ones that still stand out more to me. I saw, Scarlett Johansson, who was not an actor I had any kind of affinity for, really, prior to that. But I saw her on Cat on a Hot Tin Roof and I went into that thinking, oh, she's too young for that role to be Maggie the Cat. And she was excellent. and the show was quite good as well. And I had seen already a production that is still my favorite production of it that I saw at Stratford years ago and again thought, I don't know if I'm gonna enjoy this, and loved it. Maybe I just love that show, I don't know. But, so that one stands out. I saw an Edward Albee show and now I'm trying to remember what the play is called. A Quiet Place. I'll have to look it up.

Marco: Okay.

Amanda: But it had, Glenn Close and,

Marco: John, Lithcow.

Amanda: Thank you.

Marco: So they had the B team in.

Amanda: Yeah, they were the understudies, John Lithgow and Glenn Close. And you go in knowing their film work and hoping for the best, and it was truly wonderful. They were fantastic.

Marco: That's great.

Amanda: So wonderful in their roles and just so great. so I do think it is possible to have high hopes and have them matched.

Marco: You know, I saw Les Mis here in Toronto way back when it was first here.

Marco: And I went with a bunch of people from school.

Marco: From high school. We went. A bunch of us. Not with the school, but on our own.

Marco: Because we wanted to be, you know, that was a thing to do. We got all dressed up, Amanda. And we went to go see it and really enjoyed it. Knew nothing about it, but just knew that it was like, the big hit. And I was like, okay, let's go see this play. And I think I enjoyed it more than anyone who went to go see it.

Amanda: I'm just looking up this Edward Albee name of this play.

Marco: Whereas Cats, when I went to see Cats, which everybody talked about and everybody loved, it made no sense to me. And, you know, bunch of people dressed as cats jumping around.

Amanda: I'm with you on Cats. I don't. Cats does nothing. And I don't understand why it was so popular. I forgot Martha Plimpton was also in that show. What a cast. it's called the Delicate Balance. For anyone who's delicate, bounce.

Marco: Was I in an Albie Show?

Amanda: If you were. I don't remember. What's David Lindsay Aber show?

Marco: David Lindsay a bear. Yeah.

Amanda: No one's much younger than the other. but maybe not by much. so Les Miserables. I believe that there are musicals for every generation of young theater hopefuls.

Marco: Okay.

Amanda: So when you're thinking of the theater camp kids, of which I for sure was one. Anytime I could be, I was not. Yeah. So we have backgrounds that way. How come you weren't a theater camp kid?

Marco: I think it's because I can't sing and musicals are too much singing for me.

Amanda: Okay. That's.

Marco: I'm more comedy. And a lot of musicals are let's dance and let's sing and not let's not.

Amanda: Yeah. You're not wrong.

Marco: You know, like Bye Bye Birdie. I know. We're gonna. This is gonna be a controversial episode because people are gonna love these. These particular.

Amanda: There's nobody on the planet that's like, you know, what's my favorite musical? Bye Bye Birdie.


There are musicals for every generation, Evan Hansen says

That's not a. That's not possible.

Marco: You never know.

Amanda: not under the age of 93.

Marco: Okay, I'm sorry. Listen, we have some older. Don't. Noxygenarian.

Amanda: No, you're right. You're right. That's not fair.

Marco: Explain.

Amanda: I only say that because, as I was saying, there are musicals for every generation. So maybe people in their 80s and 90s, that was the musical of that time that they fell in love with. And that's really possible because actually, my mom likes Bye Bye Birdie, now that I've said that, she's in her 70s.

Marco: But listen, like Wicked, a lot of people like Wicked.

Amanda: So this is my point. So I think people that are now in their mid-30s, give or take, Wicked was the musical of their generation. I think people that are now in their early 40s, rent was the musical of their generation. And I think those of us in our late 40s, early 50s, Les Miserables was the musical. And Phantom of the Opera were the musicals of our generation. More Les Remiserable or Les Mis?

Marco: I don't know. I don't think that's true. I don't think age.

Amanda: I think for theater kids, though, okay, you can say that. But I was a theater kid. And let me tell you, there are musicals that you listen to every day. Every single day that you sing when no one else. When your parents go to the mall and you belt your heart out, dreaming of being able to sing these roles on a stage, any stage. And so for me, that was Les Miserables, okay? Not Cosette, Eponine. But, anyway, I didn't play.

Marco: What do you have against Cosette?

Amanda: She's all opera head voice.

Marco: I see.

Amanda: And I. And Eponine is all about the mix. She was one of those characters that really initiated the. The mix voice, meaning you can mix your head and chest voice at the same time. Miss Saigon, which, the same creators, which came after, was all mix as well. Lia Salonga. Anyway, so for me, my generation's musical, and I was like 12 or so when Les Miserables came out. So prime. If I was going to be into musicals, that was the time for me. So, yeah. And then, you know, by the time I was in my 20s, rent came out. So people who were five years younger than me, they were listening to that at home on their CD players.

Marco: I like Rent.

Amanda: Yeah, I like Rent too. But you don't sing it ever. I don't. I've never gotten the car and Rent is blasting. You know.

Marco: That's true, that's true.

Amanda: and then Wicked came, you know, probably a good ten years after that. And then Wicked was. And I say this with love and respect, when I toured, a show 10 years ago, there were kids in their kids performers in their early to mid 20s. this is 10 years ago. So now they're in their early to mid 30s. And they knew Wicked the way they knew the Alphabet. I mean, and Elphaba, like, they all wanted to be either Glenda or Elphaba. They could tell you who played what role and who subbed in for what role on Broadway. I mean, they loved Wicked.

Marco: Did I see Wicked with you?

Amanda: I don't think so.

Marco: I saw it with. What's her name in it? The. The green. The green one.

Amanda: Idina Menzel.

Marco: Yeah.

Amanda: With her playing Elphaba. The green one, AKA the green one.

Marco: For me, Wicked was. Act two, was a photocopy of act one.

Amanda: Listen, we're not here to be Wicked bashers, because people who love Wicked, love, love Wicked.

Marco: Okay?

Amanda: And same as we forget this about Rent, but I lived with my dear, dear friend Wade. Loved Rent. Loved it. So, you know, each generation has its musical.

Marco: Sure.

Amanda: You know, I don't know what this, what 12 year olds today are in love with. Dear Evan Hansen. Maybe. I don't know. I don't know what the musical is.

Marco: The Color Purple has a great soundtrack.

Amanda: It does. I don't know. I mean, sometimes time will tell. There's a lot that come out, and then one kind of keeps getting revived or keeps getting used as audition pieces as. As the years go on.


You recommend three musicals for the average person who doesn't go see musicals

But, who knows?

Marco: But okay, so if you were to recommend three musicals for the average person who doesn't go see musicals, but they might come to their town or a nearby town.

Amanda: Right.

Marco: And you're like, if you get a chance, definitely go see Blank. Blank. Oh, and don't forget Blank.

Amanda: Okay. So I like a musical there. You know what I like about a musical? I'm realizing, kind of cataloging some of the musicals that I really do love and have cherished over the years. I. I love it when there's a show within a show, like a meta type thing. So, for example, cabaret.

Marco: Oh, I see.

Amanda: I was in. When I was in university, I was a Kit Kat girl dancing on a table. how old were you? 20.

Marco: Okay.

Amanda: No, 19, I think. I don't know. Old enough. All right, So I thought. But, Cabaret is, you know, it takes place in this Berlin cabaret. Right, right. So it's a show within a show. You're the. You're the audience of this cabaret. And it's also a show about the people that work and live in this cabaret setting. So I think there's something really fun about that.

Marco: The music's also good and very memorable.

Marco: Is that one of your recos or are you just out of the three?

Amanda: Yeah, I'm going to use that as out of one of the three. It's a very powerful message.

Marco: Sure.

Amanda: It has lasting power. it's on and it's showy, great dancing, but there's a dark sort of quality.

Marco: Sure.

Amanda: So even if you don't like musicals, you might find it powerful.

Marco: It's like the antithesis of Bye Bye Birdie, which has nothing going on.

Amanda: Yes, they're very different musicals.

Marco: How great would it be to have a mashup of Bye Bye Birdie where

Amanda: you could do it in rep. Yeah.

Marco: Where you're watching Bye Bye Birdie, but then all of a sudden the cast of Cabaret comes in.

Marco: And starts singing about themes that you wouldn't expect in Bye Bye Birdie.

Amanda: Right.

Marco: Well, Bye Bye Cabaret. Imagine that. That'd be awesome.

Amanda: Would it?

Marco: It would be if I directed it.

Amanda: Okay, next one I'm gonna go with a classic. so cabaret came out in the 70s. this next musical came out in the 50s. Gypsy, about the life and times of Gypsy Rose Lee. Again, a show within a show. And you see these kids performing on vaudeville, doing the Orpheum circuit from childhood to their teens, right up to adulthood. And I identify. There's so much about Gypsy that I love. Just personally. It was my mom's favorite musical. So as children, it became our favorite musical, by proxy, sort of. But there's a lot. It wasn't just because she loved it. It was also because we were kids that grew up performing, so we saw ourselves in these children. And as an adult, I ended up doing a show that toured that I was just talking about that toured for three years. And I realized somewhere along the line, oh, wow, I am doing the Orpheum circuit. All these old Orpheum Pantages, Pantagious houses, Fox theaters, you know, there was a couple different chains of theaters that were big at the turn of the century through to sort of mid century, that were vaudeville that became burlesque. And that's what Gypsy's about. It's about the history of American theater, really.

Marco: I see. And does it have a memorable song or two in it?

Amanda: Oh, so many. They're all memorable. I mean, everything's Coming up Roses. Everyone knows that song.

Marco: I often do this to Amanda where I'm like, what song came out of that musical. And Amanda has to mention a song.

Amanda: It's not my favorite song from the show. It's probably my least favorite song from the show. But. But, it's that song of, like, showbiz people, like, we're just gonna keep going no matter what.

Marco: Right.


Third question is about a recent Russian musical that was on Broadway

Amanda: So anyway, and then the third. I'm gonna go out of the box and talk about one that's very recent.

Marco: Oh, I wasn't expecting this.

Amanda: And this is N. Pierre and the great Comet of 1812.

Marco: Okay, put that on your list, folks.

Amanda: Yeah, it was on Broadway. M. It was off Broadway about 10 years ago and probably on Broadway about seven years ago, depending on when you're listening to this or later. But, it's now being done in sort of regional theaters and so on a little bit. And it's part of, War and Peace. It's like a chapter of War of the book, War and Peace.

Marco: Oh, really?

Amanda: Yeah. So it's Russian. it's staged in a very immersive way.

Marco: Is it dark and dour like I expect it to be?

Amanda: There's dark themes, there's light themes. It just. There's lots of characters. I did not expect to love it as much as I did.

Marco: Is it fun? Cause that doesn't sound.

Amanda: It is fun. Off the top, they're singing about how you as an audience member need to really look into your program and you need to learn about. About these people. And so they keep singing it repetitively.

Marco: Oh, that's okay.

Amanda: So they're like, okay, you need to learn about this. And she loves him, but he doesn't love her, but he loves her, but. Okay. So they're. They're having a lot of fun with it. They're playing the. You know, they're playing the accordion. They're playing the guitar as they're singing.

Marco: Okay, because when you said it's about the first chapter of War and Peace, that doesn't sound like fun to me. But when you're describing it now, for

Amanda: some people, it is. For Tolstoy, it is.

Marco: I guess. I mean, for if.

Amanda: Okay, Tolstoy, write War and Peace.

Marco: I don't even know that's your department. I don't know when we play Jeopardy, anything book wise, Russian lit. I give Amanda to answer. But, you know, that's not what I expect. When you say it's about War and Peace, that sounds like more fun. Something more my speed.

Amanda: It's one story within War, M and Peace.

Marco: Okay.

Amanda: So it's called Natasha, Pierre and the great Comet of 1812. And yes, Tolstoy did write War and Peace.

Marco: That's what I said.

Amanda: Got our producers to fact check.

Marco: Okay. Amanda checks on her, we should mention.


You toured in a parody of 50 Shades of Gray called Spank

Because you've mentioned this a couple of times. Listeners, when they hear that, they want to know, what was this touring show you were in that toured the Orpheum circuit?

Amanda: Gosh. So that show was called Spank. A, 50 Shades of Gray parody. So 50 Shades of Gray was real big in, like, 2010 to 2012. The show came out in 2012. And, the company that put it together did so very quickly. They wrote a bunch of sort of funny sketches and made a narrative out of it, more or less. And it sold so much and so well that within weeks of creating the first cast, they created a second cast, knowing that they needed cast members to sub in and out. So they needed, anyways, an American and Canadian to play the role of, the EL James role. Like, so I played. I played the author who is having a glass of wine at home and making up these explicit things that she can only dream of that are, you know, ridiculous and using audience suggestions to incorporate it into the narrative. And so that's what I did.

Marco: And I only say that because some of our listeners may have seen you and they're like, oh, my goodness, did I see her? Because you toured for quite a bit. And not that you'll mention it, but I will. Amanda won three Broadway World Awards for that particular show she was in, and

Amanda: lots in Nashville and in Denver and in, Toronto. But, the theaters were one of the things I remember most about that tour. Looking up, and there would be stars, you know, lights in the ceiling, these gorgeous theaters that were made in the early 1900s or even prior.

Marco: Sure.

Amanda: And, you know, and that's what they're used for, is mostly touring shows or big budget shows. and they're just spectacular. You know, the history of theater in America is a rich and wonderful thing.


Let us know what your favorite musical is or a musical you would recommend

Marco: Now, notice how Amanda doesn't ask me what my three musicals are that I.

Amanda: What are your three favorite musicals, Marco?

Marco: No, not what are my three favorite. The ones I would recommend to listen to listeners to go see.

Amanda: Well, those are my three that I'll

Marco: recommend because I know that you like west side Story as well, and that was a lot.

Amanda: But it depends on who you are.

Marco: I know, but you're like, if you. The question was, what if there's a person who has a show coming to town that you would say, you should definitely check this out. So I'm gonna recommend My three.

Amanda: Okay.

Marco: So one would be the Producers. I really enjoy the Producers. I think it's really funny. I really like the music from a comedic standpoint, from a visual standpoint. I got to see my friend on Broadway, Sarah Cornell, play Oola. And I got to try on her, eagle helmet that you wore. That's like five feet high. It was great.

Amanda: Amazing.

Marco: so I would recommend the Producer.

Amanda: Such a fun show.

Marco: Another musical I would recommend. I really enjoy the Color Purple. I saw it with you. A matinee on Broadway when we were working on a ship. Performing on a ship.

Amanda: We, we had a day off in New York. Yeah.

Marco: And we're like, let's see if we can get tickets. And we went to go see Fantasia in, the Color Purple and it was a matinee. So we didn't think she, you know, there was a likelihood that she wasn't going to do the matinee.

Marco: And she did. And it was marvelous.

Amanda: It was marvelous. And we haven't seen the movie yet where she stars in it, but my God, she was great.

Marco: Yeah. I don't know about the movie, but I'll tell you this, I think as a live experience. That's fantastic.

Marco: I'm not going to mention Les Miz because we've already sort of top end of the.

Amanda: But that sadly, miss, is always a. A good time if you want to see French people singing.

Marco: I really, really enjoy the musical that our friend wrote. That, I can't think of the name of right now. Chris Bond wrote that is Evil Dead. Evil Dead the musical. Evil Dead the musical. I don't know. I was getting it confused with the other one that.

Amanda: Yeah, he's written a few, so that's fair.

Marco: Evil Dead the musical for me.

Amanda: And it's coming back to Toronto, I

Marco: think is so great. And I know it's based on a horror film, but the music is great. It's a fun time, it's a great show. And I think I like to go to musicals and have a fun.

Marco: Time of laughter.

Amanda: Yeah.

Marco: And so Water for Elephants was not that.

Amanda: So it was a. It was a lovely musical, I'm gonna say. we had. We. I feel like if we'd sat closer to the stage, maybe we would have liked it more. But then again, I don't know.

Marco: No, I need a musical where I can sit far away from and enjoy as if I was close. If the musical is. You need to be close to see the elephant, close to buy it. It's not for me, and I made a great joke, and I said to Amanda, you know, we have to wait till halftime to see the elephant, because the elephant from Lion King has to walk itself over to the theater.

Amanda: I still think it's my joke was I called it Water for Me Elephants. So there you go. There you go.

Marco: And we'll leave you with that. Let us know what your favorite musical is or a musical you would recommend. Of course, you can always do that on our Instagram, which is, of course, available to you, called the Insomnia Project. Sorry, at the Insomnia Project. Because our Twitter, which I'm not on that much, is called Listen and Sleep, but however you want to.

Amanda: It's also not called Twitter anymore.

Marco: Whatever.

Amanda: Exactly. So we're not on it a lot.

Marco: We're not on it ever since they changed the name.

Amanda: And let's be honest, you're not on it a lot either.

Marco: Right.

Amanda: So you, the listener.

Marco: I mean, you don't know.

Amanda: Wow. If you're a listener that really would like us to engage in our X account, please do let us know if you happen to still be awake, but

Marco: do it on Instagram. All right, until next time, we hope you were able to listen and sleep.

In Halifax Wanderers Take You to Dreamland (Maybe), Marco welcomes guest James Covey for a gently curious journey to Halifax. What begins as a playful geography lesson — imagining the city shaped like a shoe — unfolds into a relaxed exploration of coastal charm, local landmarks, and the easy rhythm of life in the Maritimes. James guides Marco through the story behind the city’s beloved soccer club, the Halifax Wanderers FC, sharing how the team’s name carries history and community pride.
The conversation drifts into reflections on “the beautiful game,” with Marco offering a soft-spoken appreciation for soccer’s simple, equalizing spirit. For listeners new to the sport, James shares a few gentle tips on how to watch a match without overthinking it — perfect for those late-night games that blur into background comfort.
As always, this calming podcast unfolds at an unhurried pace, offering a relaxing conversation designed to help you fall asleep, ease anxiety, or quiet racing thoughts. Whether you’re dreaming of Atlantic breezes or simply enjoying steady companionship, let this easy exchange guide you peacefully toward rest.

​Halifax Wanderers Take You to Dreamland (Maybe)
(Original airdate: July 10, 2024)


James Covey is a longtime listener and first time guest on Insomnia Project

Welcome to the Insomnia Project. Sit back, relax and listen as we have a calm conversation that's meant to help you find your way to sleep. I'm your host, Marco Dimpano, and joining me is a guest I've been hoping to have in the studio. I'm so glad to have, our guest today. Join us. Welcome James Covey to the Insomnia Project. How are you doing?

James Covey:  I'm really happy to be here. You know, longtime listener, first time guest.

Marco: So great.

James Covey:  Yeah, so pretty, pretty pleased to be here. Thanks so much.

Marco: And you're here in our Toronto studio, but you live in Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, so I'm so glad to have you.

James Covey:  I do have been on the Dartmouth side of the Halifax harbor for a good 20 years now. Something like that.

Marco: 24 years. What's the difference between the Dartmouth side and the Halifax side? So it's not Halifax, but you're a pinch away. Right. you're not even a suburb, you're that close.

James Covey:  It's a one mile bridge. And it's a deep psychological divide. This is a weird thing about haligonian culture is. I mean, I grew up on the mainland off the peninsula, so opposite side from Dartmouth. Okay, and what do you mean?

Marco: So you, you grew up in Halifax?

James Covey:  Grew up in, in Halifax, but not on the peninsula. So people don't think of it as Halifax property. Okay. No, I'm from Spry Field.

Marco: All right, so I'm gonna just have to unpack that. First of all, for our international listeners, a Haligonian is someone from Halifax. Halifax is shaped like a what?

James Covey:  Kind of like a shoe?

Marco: Like a shoe. And the peninsula is what a lot of Haligonians consider Halifax proper. Yeah, but you grew up on the lace side or where you tie up the laces.

James Covey:  Yeah, yeah. Across that inlet, that goes along the top of the laces there is called the Northwest Arm.

Marco: The Northwest Arm. So would that be newer Halifax to older Halifax and Halifax being an old city.

James Covey:  Yeah. At one point the boot shaped peninsula or shoe shaped peninsula was the extent of Halifax and everything else was kind of considered a suburb. The then just like many cities, amalgamation, et cetera, et cetera. So the community of Spryfield on the mainland, not on the peninsula that I, that I grew up in.

Marco: I see. Yeah.

James Covey:  That was kind of its own thing. And now it's part of Halifax.

Marco: Wow. Okay, this makes a lot of sense because I hear Becca, who is my sister in law, your partner, talk about the peninsula a lot. And it would just go over my head and I'm like, oh, now it makes sense. So now is Dartmouth facing the, toe of the shoe, the heel, the backside of the shoe? Where does Dartmouth face in this shoe equation?

James Covey:  Yeah, it's. It's facing the sole of the shoes.

Marco: Okay. The sole of the shoe. I didn't think it was. The shoe was pointing upwards or the toe is pointing upwards. But that makes. Or in my Mind now it is.


You take the ferry or the bridge to get back and forth from Dartmouth

Okay, so Dartmouth, it's a city across from Halifax. You can see Halifax. You take the ferry or the bridge to get back and forth. Correct. What do you take? Usually?

James Covey:  I typically, if I, well, typically take the bridge, because even if I'm riding my bike, because I like to cycle over sometimes, there's only one of the two bridges, has a, bicycle path.

Marco: I see.

James Covey:  so that's a common route for me. however, the ferries are also very accommodating to bicycles.

Marco: When would you, as a person from Dartmouth and how are you referred to if a, haligonian is some from Halifax, Someone from Dartmouth is Dartmouthian. Okay, so when would you, a Dartmouthian, love that expression? I feel, it almost feels Shakespearean to me. when would you, a Dartmouthian, take the ferry over? If your first choice is predominantly the bridge, when do you take the ferry?

James Covey:  Sometimes it's when I'm coming over, to watch a game, you know, like on a match day, you know, maybe I'm going to have a beer or two at the game. I'm definitely not going to drive, back. So I might, you know, walk down to the ferry or Uber or bus down to the ferry and then cross on the ferry just because it's a nice thing to do. I mean, it's a $3 tour of Halifax Harbor.

Marco: Right. Beautiful tour.


The Halifax Wanderers play in the Canadian Premier League

Okay, so you mentioned game. What game are you going to see when you, a, ah, Dartmouthian is taking the Halifax ferry to Halifax to enjoy a beer with likely a haligonian or two.

James Covey:  So I like to go watch the Halifax Wanderers, which is our, local professional soccer team playing in Canada's top tier league, the Canadian Premier League.

Marco: Okay, and tell me about the Wanderers. What I need to know is their colors and what exactly a wanderer is. Is it like a Bedouin who wanders the desert? I don't know why that would be a Halifax, team name, but I'm

James Covey:  curious, I mean, if you're ready

Marco: to dig in on this podcast is all about digging in.

James Covey:  Okay, so let's dig in. Let's go on this journey. so early in the history of association football, also known as soccer, in England in kind of the mid to late 1800s when, football began to be more organized and associations were formed, there was, it was very common at the time for teams to be formed, clubs to be formed and not have a permanent home or stadium.

Marco: So not like the Manchester that we know, or Liverpool, big, English, British soccer teams that have A stadium and a following wouldn't be like that.

James Covey:  Yeah, they might have a following, but

Marco: not a proper stadium.

James Covey:  Yeah, exactly. So they might play at different locations, and that's where the wandering comes in.

Marco: Okay.

James Covey:  Yeah. And so you will see, a lot of teams in soccer called Wanderers or Rovers and, Rangers, and these are all variations on the same thing. We don't have a stadium or permanent. A permanent place that we play the

Marco: Halifax we're talking about right now.

James Covey:  Well, so we'll get to that.

Marco: Okay, sorry. So this is the teams in the past, they didn't have a problem. Okay, sorry. All right.

James Covey:  Yeah, that's right. But what happened when the sport got more organized in the 1860s and 70s, is that the. The Football association cup was created and the FA cup became the championship of England.

Marco: Okay.

James Covey:  And something like five of the first seven FA cup tournaments, I believe, were won by Wanderers Football Club.

Marco: Okay.

James Covey:  And so what happened there?

Marco: And Wanderers would be what city?

James Covey:  You know what? I don't even remember at this moment where they started out. I should know this.

Marco: No, fair enough.

James Covey:  but, yeah, they were just called Wanderers fc. And so because they had this ongoing success, the name began to be, associated with just sporting supremacy. Sporting success. And so you began to see new clubs that were formed that would call themselves Wanderers or Rovers, even if they had a permanent place to play, just because that was a cool thing to call yourself because it meant this is a team that wins. Wow. And so you go from the 1870s to 1882, and in Halifax, Nova Scotia, what was a refuse heap in the center of the city was transformed into an athletic field.

Marco: Okay. Was, ah, it put on top of the refuse. So the refuse is underneath what currently would be this area of.

James Covey:  I think that, like, some stuff got hauled away. Like, it was a significant project.

Marco: Okay. this is in 1882.

James Covey:  1882. And so, this was. This was turned into a really, like, premium, ah, surface. Like, it was definitely the. The best such location in the Maritimes. and what was formed then was the Wanderers Amateur athletic club in 1882. and so that was the beginning of the site in Halifax that's known as the Wanderer's Grounds.

Marco: Wow. Oh, that's fascinating. I didn't realize the history of that was so long ago. Because the team that you root for

James Covey:  now was formed when, so launched in 2018. And then both the club and the Canadian Premier League, played its first season in 2019. so we're one of the founding clubs of The National League.

Marco: And are they playing currently where the refuse used to be? That was made into Correct.

James Covey:  Wanderer's Grounds.

Marco: Wanderers grounds. Wow. That's a fascinating little history of, of. Of that whole thing. Thank you for sharing that, James. It's actually put a lot of things kind of right in my head with regards to these names and whatnot. So what is it about the Wanderers, other than you being from the area? Unless there's a Dartmouth team that I don't know of, that you love, that makes you a big fan?

James Covey:  I think what I usually cite first when people ask me that is I just. From a very young age, I really loved watching the sport. I mean, I never played it in an organized way, but, like pick up games at recess time at school or whatever. Played it when I was, you know, 6, 7, 8 years old and on. But really when I was 12, I started to watch international soccer tournaments. I was really, really into it. And, ultimately I got to the point where I really wished that there was like, a professional club in Halifax so I could go see like, the, the professionals play. And.

Marco: So who's. Whose team were you rooting for back then when. When Halifax didn't have a team?

James Covey:  so I really ended up following two teams, like, kind of with a, With a nod to my, my. The Italian side of my birth family and so forth. Like, I got really interested in Serie A and Italy, so I started following Roma. and then in terms of like, North American clubs, really the closest one was, at the time, Montreal Impact. Now CF Montreal.

Marco: Okay.

James Covey:  And, started following, following them. And yeah, I think I just, like Montreal really vibes with me. I mean, growing up, I also liked watching baseball and I was an exposure.

Marco: You were an Expos fan.

James Covey:  Okay. So it just all kind of came together like that.


For a long time, Halifax didn't have a professional hockey team

So I would say I didn't follow the team very closely because obviously that's a. For those who don't know, Montreal is a good 14 hour drive from Halifax. So it's not like you just pick up and go to a game. so you got to plan that.

Marco: That takes some planning.

James Covey:  Yeah. But this is why, you know, for a long time I just thought, you know, someday I'll move to a bigger city like Montreal or Toronto, and there will be a professional team and then I can go to games all the time. Wow.

Marco: Okay. Yeah, that's really fascinating.


The Wanderers have really reinvented their playing style under new coach

All right, so tell me about the Wanderers play. Do they have a distinct style of playing? What do they do that really, you admire or esteem? What is it that. That team that you're like, you know, what's really cool about our team is blank.

James Covey:  Well, the. I think the Wanderers have really reinvented their playing style in the last two years. They brought in a new head coach. His name is Patrice Geyser. And before he coached the Wander. The Wanderers are his first fully professional club. I see before that he coached pretty much the most successful semi pro team in Canada, Vaughan at Surrey Vaughan soccer club.

Marco: And P.S. i grew up in Vaughan.

James Covey:  There you go.

Marco: In case anybody's wondering what my connection

James Covey:  is to this coach. So, yeah, Vaughan really repeatedly smashed the league like they would win pretty much every game of every season. And so Patrice was in a good place to make the jump to pro, when the opportunity came. And what we've seen under him is a more attacking style, a more flexible style with, roles more flexibly defined. We see a lot of like, really good, passing, ball movement. so it's a really exciting style to watch. it's been very entertaining the last two seasons.

Marco: What is associated with that particular style? Is that more of a European style or more of a Brazilian style?

James Covey:  I would say that really, you know, at one, at one time, you know, national styles were very distinct.

Marco: Okay.

James Covey:  But it's a fully globalized sport, fully global game. And so, really, it's kind of very common now to. When anytime a new coach comes into any team pretty much in the world, it's like, oh, we want to be more exciting. Presumably there's dissatisfaction with whatever came before. but, yeah, I mean, some, some inspiration. There's a few lines of inspiration that run into, the club. You know, one of the assistant coaches has written a book on how to coach. Oh, that's great. Spanish tiki taka style of keeping the ball on the floor, lots of passes, moving the ball around. Possession football, as opposed to. The two main styles are really possession football, where the way to control the game is by having as much of the ball as possible versus the counter attacking style, where you have less, of the ball, but you try to control the game by controlling space.

Marco: Oh, wow.

James Covey:  and I would, I would say that Patrice's style is a bit of a hybrid. they're not setting records for the most passes. but there is more passing than we used to have, if you see what I mean. So, yeah.

Marco: One of the great things about soccer or football, depending on what you like to call it, is that it is a great equalizer because it's just a ball.

James Covey:  Yes.

Marco: So people all over the world, it doesn't matter what finances you have, you know, how old you are, what space you have, you know, it's you. A few friends and a ball can play this game. Sure, if you have a field, even better. but it doesn't require more than that. And I think that's one of the great things about this particular sport and why we see it played all over the world. Unlike other sports, hockey, which you need, generally speaking, you need a more cooler climate where ice is formed. you know, American football requires a lot of equipment, as does baseball, and it requires a set of rules. Cricket too requires, you know, requires more than just you, friends and a ball.

James Covey:  M.

Marco: I think that's wonderful about it.

James Covey:  It's such a democratizing, you know, type, type of quality. And honestly, I think you're dead on. I think that's why the sport is so universal. It's just, it's very simple to set up and play.

Marco: When I was in Brazil, I was in Sao Paulo, and I was, I was struck because in my hotel, as I turned the channel on the remote, every other channel was some form of soccer in Brazil. And not just the big league teams. You could see, you know, high school kids play, you could see college kids play. You could see just a variety of skill levels and levels in the competition of soccer was available to you. It was incredible. Like old black and white games with Pele and like just, it was just fascinating how much it's part of, Brazilian culture that it was that available on the television.

James Covey:  Yeah, yeah, no, that's I love experiencing things like that when I travel, you know, because it's, it's a sport that's so important to me. So when you end up spending time in a place where it's important to everyone, it just feels so relatable. And you know, when it happens to me, I feel very at home.

Marco: Wow. Yeah, it was at least 25 channels of soccer. It was quite incredible.

James Covey:  I have kind of a similar memory of, when I spent, six weeks in Syria. Syria is also a country with a very deep soccer culture. And I can remember wandering around the souks and downtown streets in Aleppo at night, and every TV in every stall would have a game on, whether it was the Syrian Premier League or one of the European leagues. Just screens everywhere showing soccer.

Marco: I remember I was in Italy in 82, I believe, when the World cup was happening, I want to say in 86 was Mexico.

James Covey:  Right.

Marco: So 82 was in Germany. I'm not sure.

James Covey:  82 was in Spain.

Marco: In Spain, that's right. It was in Spain. And I remember being in Italy at my aunt's house, and I was just a young kid, but during the time that Italy played, you heard nothing on the streets. You heard nothing. It was like very, very quiet. Like, there were no cars. It was really, really quiet until a goal was scored. And then, because my aunt lives on top of a valley in the Alps, you could hear the sounds of people cheering from their homes and in bars from all around. You could just kind of hear it and see where the sound was coming from to her home, which was higher up. And it was like, oh, it's quiet. Because every single person in this town, in the neighboring towns, is not out there watching this game. It's incredible.

James Covey:  That is an amazing memory.


Marco Di Quinzios says his dad was a big soccer fan

M Now, Marco, when you were growing up, I don't know if I've ever asked you this, did your family have kind of a club that they supported? Was there any kind of unanimity on that?

Marco: That's a great question. So, my dad was a big soccer fan. And as a kid he said, you know, one of the first joys was when I had a boy, I put a soccer in front of him to see. I was excited that maybe my son would be a soccer player. And he said, the first thing I did was look at the ball. And I turned around and sat down with my back to the ball. So I was like, okay, clearly I don't have a soc soccer player here. But later in life, my dad would just watch Italian Serie A soccer. And I don't know if he had a team, he just loved watching it. But I m remember as a kid in particular, the World Cup m was a big thing. And of course he went for the Azzuri, which is the Italian national team, was his team. And just watching him watch the game was a lot of fun. So I get into the, the World cup, games. That's when I'm really into soccer. Otherwise I don't pay it much mind. And, then later on, as I got older, he would watch the WEFA Cups and all these other cups, and he would be really involved in it. And, soccer on Saturdays and Sundays was always on the television. And I saw an Inter Milan game, Inter Fiorentina in Milan, many years ago. And getting to watch a football or soccer game amongst people in a stadium where soccer is a big thing is such a fun experience, especially in a. In a. In a different land, just to see how other people react. It was, it was an incredible experience.

James Covey:  Yeah. Yeah. I think it's very. I mean, I think way more people watch the international games than watch club games. So the, it's like the international tournaments are the ones that really bring people together. And then partly because, you know, everyone in a country is supporting the same side.

Marco: Right.

James Covey:  so that, that makes a whole lot of sense to me. I don't think there was in my birth father's family, they, they were from Penne. And like, the closest big Ish club was Piscata.

Marco: Yeah, that makes sense.

James Covey:  but as like, you know, farmers in the countryside, like, it would have been a big effort to even get into the city to go see a game or whatever. So they never really formed that kind of club attachment. So now, you know, here in Canada, it was all about, you know, those who wanted to follow a club. There was no one club to follow. Like, I know people in my, in my family that follow Juventus, that follow and that sort of thing. I think I'm the only Roma fan among the Di Quinzios.

Marco: If you ever go to a concert in Rome, you'll see a lot of the people going to the concert will hold up Roma, Roma scarves and Roma flags. At a concert for, an artist who is. Is not a tifos or a fan of Rome or might not even be from Italy, they'll just have these. Rome. They just carry these Rome. I think it's like orange and brownish kind of colors, if I'm not mistaken. Right.

James Covey:  Yeah, they're the Jello Roth sea.

Marco: Okay. So.

James Covey:  Yeah. Kind of yellow and red.

Marco: Okay. Yellow and red. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And so you just see, you see a lot of that in Rome. I'm always fascinated by, by that too. Right. Like the Wanderers. One of the things I love about the Wanderers is your colors are so awesome. Like, I just, I love the coloration of the. Of the Wanderers team.

James Covey:  I really love the combination of the, the dark blue and the more teal blue. And then the, the third color in the equation is, so called naval gray, which is such a nice accent. And then of course, you do stir in, like, white elements with kits because, you know, there's white versions of everything.

Marco: Yeah. I didn't like the kit that Italy had this year in the competition, which was this dark green. It didn't make quite sense to me.

James Covey:  Yeah, it's funny that, that, Italy's, you know, Italy's national team looks wrong when they're wearing like, a color that's on the national flag.

Marco: It's just, yeah, it's just odd because they're known as the azzuri, which is azure blue or azure blue. Blue. That's their color and that's the color of all the sports, national sports teams. So if you're an Italian cyclist, it's going to be that color blue. It's just the color of Italy sport, I guess. So it's just interesting when you see a color that's like, I, I don't, I don't get it. Now that you mentioned it's on the flag, I'm like, yeah, I guess so. But yeah, one last thing about soccer. If there was a listener listening who hasn't watched a soccer game, what tips would you give them when they watch their first soccer game? Because soccer can be, you know, a challenging sport to watch if you don't understand it like offside. A lot of people don't quite understand that concept or that, that it's not a very high scoring game necessarily.

James Covey:  I mean there are different routes to understanding soccer depending on what kind of sport you're coming from. As a, as a favorite, if you already have a favorite. I mean, I think for those who like gridiron football, you know, one thing to think about is, well, a major score is about as common in soccer as it is in gridiron football.

Marco: Okay.

James Covey:  Like if you look at I don't know what gridiron football is, so that's like the NFL or the CFL. It's like a catch all term for American and Canadian 80s versions of football. And yeah, like in that, in those sports, especially in like the NFL, if you just think of it in terms of if a touchdown is like a goal and don't think about all the like the little points that you get for like field goals and stuff like that, it's about the same number of major scores in both kind of football and soccer. so if you start thinking about it that way, like what are the big like tent pole moments in a match? Well, a goal is a thing that's hard to do. Scoring is the hardest thing in soccer. So when they score a goal, it's a big deal. so really, if you really appreciate, I think if you're watching soccer long enough, you begin to appreciate all the little battles that lead up to the major score.


James: Give soccer a chance because it has a slower build and involvement

And that stuff isn't necessarily evident the first time you're watching. so I would say just give it a chance because the more you feel the rhythm of the game and how things build up to a goal, the more it begins to feel like a story and less like a bunch of boring random elements. And when you compare it to sports where scoring is more frequent, like let's say hockey, I can remember going back and watching a nice hockey game for the first time in a long time after watching soccer for years and it just seemed so random to me. There's not as much effort, you know, to score a goal. There's not as much strategy, there aren't as many tactics. and you know, I love the fun high energy of ice hockey.

Marco: Sure.

James Covey:  but, soccer has that more like slow build and involvement and it doesn't ask you to pause and watch commercials.

Marco: I see. There you go. That's awesome. I, I'll say this, I'll add this. If you are watching soccer and it comes to penalty kicks at the end, it's a very, very nail biting, exciting moment in that sport.

James Covey:  Yeah. And there's, I know it's a common thing to say that it's kind of a lottery, but there actually is a whole lot of strategy and analytics now in the game that goes into how penalty, shootouts are handled. a fun thing that often people don't really realize is, a penalty shootout never decides the winner of a game. When a game is not decided by a goal in regular time or extra time, it's recorded as a draw.

Marco: I didn't know that.

James Covey:  That's right. So the point of a penalty shootout is just to decide either a final winner of a tournament or to decide who advances to the next round of the tournament.

Marco: I did not know that. Thank you, James. Well, we'll have to have you back on the podcast to explain offside because I mentioned it and I think that would take 26 minutes at least to fully comprehend what that means.

James Covey:  The Brits minted a coin just to, explain it in one picture.

Marco: Ok.

James Covey:  So we can talk about that coin. It's a fun story.

Marco: Fantastic. So stay tuned for that listeners.


James Covey: It's fun to talk about my favorite sport

Until then, I want to thank our guest, James Covey. Thank you for all the information as well.

James Covey:  Oh, you bet. It's fun to talk about my favorite sport. So I really appreciate you having me on.

Marco: Oh, so great. I love hearing, when people talk about their passion and what a great episode this was. I hope you were able to, follow along and maybe fall asleep and if not, please send us a message on our Instagram what you thought about this show or anything, anything that delights you on our podcast. We always love receiving that. Until next time, we hope you are able to listen and sleep.

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